Tigers vs. redsox ALCS Game 2 Thread

[Thumb]

was the pop up that Prince missed in the 9th?

Yes Tom, and because you dislike Prince why don;t you say something dumb like how he blinked when he got into close contact, you know...an involuntary reaction.

Watch Avila some time on the slo-mo when he's catching, he closes his eyes every time he catches a pitch...know why? Because you can't help it!

 

[tomdalton22]

Yes Tom, and because you dislike Prince why don;t you say something dumb like how he blinked when he got into close contact, you know...an involuntary reaction.

Watch Avila some time on the slo-mo when he's catching, he closes his eyes every time he catches a pitch...know why? Because you can't help it!

he should have caught that ball but he is a terrible defensive player. Salt would have been out so he wouldn't have hit the game winner (although someone else may have later)

And yes....Prince is my least favorite Tiger....but you already know that!

 

[kalinecountry]

I've had time to sleep on it as well.

"I was done," Scherzer told reporters in Detroit's clubhouse. "You can write that. I was done."

What was not asked: "Max, how can a pitcher who enters an inning with 94 pitches throw 14 more and become "spent" in the process? With pitch 107 being 97 MPH? With a top pitch count of 18 in any one inning? After blowing away two hitters and having the other nub out to second base?"

I'm not buying the tale, and that's harsh to say, but Scherzer had 13 games this season with higher pitch totals and this is not May in Minnesota. And you think any the robots who write for the Detroit Sports Media challenged him? No, they are defending him to the end. Or not interested in challenging his comments. Will it change the events? No.

"This is the postseason," he said. "I'd die on the field if I had to. I was going to sacrifice my body. I've done it my whole career." Torii Hunter. Can't pass up the contrast.

Regarding what Max said, the more I read that and think about it, the more I think Max is saying it to keep any more heat from Leyland.

 

[Thumb]

he should have caught that ball but he is a terrible defensive player. Salt would have been out so he wouldn't have hit the game winner (although someone else may have later)

And yes....Prince is my least favorite Tiger....but you already know that!

I'll say he "could" have caught it. But there was clear interference, even though technically it's only interference if it happens before the ball goes out of play.


Torii "could" have caught that GS ball too, but it's easy to sit back and say it when you're not the one running full speed into an immovable barricade, or a dozen arms and hands waving in your face.

 

[Thumb]

Regarding what Max said, the more I read that and think about it, the more I think Max is saying it to keep any more heat from Leyland.

Sorry I don't buy that. Max does not pull his punches, you need only read his comments on the Biogenesis thing and Peralta's suspension to know that.

 

[tigermud]

On another topic

I'm getting tired of seeing professional baseball players act like little babies when they get a strike called on them they thought was a ball when it wasn't even a freakin ball...that perhaps is the one thing that really ticks me off about that loss last night to see all those whinny bitches still get there way with a win

In watching highlights often we think Boston is bad, man that freakin puig is just terrible in this regard, every time I see punk bat he's throwing little hissy fits after every pitch they call a strike on him..it's freakin ridiculous and they should start throwing these whiny brats out

 

[tigermud]

Mlb network

Mitch Williams calls leyland out also, managed like it was a 1 run game instead of a four, should have left Veras in he was a closer is Houston....worst happens Ellsbury homers and it's still 5-3 ...He over managed it

 

[grandy]

 

[tomdalton22]

I'll say he "could" have caught it. But there was clear interference, even though technically it's only interference if it happens before the ball goes out of play.


Torii "could" have caught that GS ball too, but it's easy to sit back and say it when you're not the one running full speed into an immovable barricade, or a dozen arms and hands waving in your face.

the interference call is debatable. I'm not sure it was....maybe somebody barely touched his arm. Either way...that was a ball he should have caught. The Torii catch might be made 1 out of 20 times.....0 out of 20 if you over run it!

 

[mjsb2]

Of course you don't manage that way during the regular season, playoff managing ia different, there's no long term focus. You don't worry about resting players, getting guys work, saving players for the long haul.

The 8th inning was a high leverage situation, the game was going to be won or lost there. You try to maximize every matchup and advantage possible. In the end, our best reliever missed badly with a pitch to their best hitter at the worst time. Its a cop out to blame the manager, he didn't walk elsbury or miss with the change up.

Game 3 tomorrow, need to bounce back. Good pitching matchup for us

I'm well aware the pitchers didn't do their job.

I'm fine with players messing up, that happens from time to time in baseball.

The difference between a player messing up, and a manager messing up, is that a managers screw up is 100% mental. It's not because he has a very difficult job to do, it's because he made a mental error.

It's unfortunate, but forgivable, that all the RP who were brought in failed to do their job in sequence like that.

What's not forgivable is a manager burning through his 3/4 best RP to get 3 outs.

It was a fucking four run game, just retarded to manage the bullpen the way he did.

Yes, it was 99% on the players, and yes, that is always the case, but that doesn't mean Leyland wasn't an idiot for the way he managed it.

And as I said, when a manager messes up, it's entirely mental, and that is inexcusable.

 

[UMRules06]

All that proves is that pundits are not that well informed.



I've already offered the inverse logic of ever replacing a player like Cabrera with Santiago at any part of the game. There's no upside at all.



Oyler went in for Willie Horton and not Stanley. And it was as stupid then as it is now. So Smith got it half-way right. And you remember how many game-saving plays Oyler made in the WS? None. He had two putouts, a force at second and an L-6 n the four games. Hardly worth taking Horton from the lineup. He hit .304 and was tied in runs scored even though he had fewer PAs than the other OFs.

And how many game- and series-saving plays did Horton make in LF? One that I can recall.

Pundits are not well informed? That's not arrogant or anything haha. And Santiago is better defensively than Cabrera, so if all you're concerned about is defense, there is your upside. We will agree to disagree on this one looks like. Just because Oyler didn't get an opportunity to make a great defensive play, doesn't mean it was stupid to have him in there. That's just the way the cards fell (pun intended). Horton was not known as a great defensive outfielder, but you're right he made a tremendous play in game 5. You can also double down on 13 and get lucky to spike an 8. Going against the grain will work a large percentage of the time in single instances, it's just that simple. Doesn't mean it's the best strategy in the world.

I respect your opinion on this. I'm not trying to get into a heated argument here. I'm not even saying teams should always sub for defense late. I'm just saying I don't think it's idiotic.

 

[tomdalton22]

I'm well aware the pitchers didn't do their job.

I'm fine with players messing up, that happens from time to time in baseball.

The difference between a player messing up, and a manager messing up, is that a managers screw up is 100% mental. It's not because he has a very difficult job to do, it's because he made a mental error.

It's unfortunate, but forgivable, that all the RP who were brought in failed to do their job in sequence like that.

What's not forgivable is a manager burning through his 3/4 best RP to get 3 outs.

It was a fucking four run game, just retarded to manage the bullpen the way he did.

Yes, it was 99% on the players, and yes, that is always the case, but that doesn't mean Leyland wasn't an idiot for the way he managed it.

And as I said, when a manager messes up, it's entirely mental, and that is inexcusable.

the way he managed it?? He used his best BP arms and all of them failed. What else could he have done....use his worst BP arms and let them fail?

 

[mjsb2]

the way he managed it?? He used his best BP arms and all of them failed. What else could he have done....use his worst BP arms and let them fail?

How about not set up your RP to fail?

Taking a pitcher out because he let one baserunner on is retarded.

If you're gonna pull Veras because a LHH comes up, why let him pitch to Drew?

Just start Smyly in the 8th when the Sox had L/R/L coming up.

Or let Veras pitch to Ellsbury, where he'll be followed by 2 RHH.

It's simply dumb to bring in 4 RP in the 8th inning of a game.

Let the pitchers pitch, any one of the 3 he brought in before Benoit, and there's no doubt we aren't having this conversation.

And then yanking Benoit in the 9th? Really? After he threw 5 pitches. Yeah, use our 3/4 best RP to get 3 outs.

I've been critical of Leylands use of Smyly all year, and using him as a loogy is fucking retarded, and a horrible job of mismanaging him.

 

[Sbee]

the way he managed it?? He used his best BP arms and all of them failed. What else could he have done....use his worst BP arms and let them fail?

It falls on deaf ears. They want to blame the manager because that's just what they do.

Here's a litmus test, have you ever read posts by these people who overstate the role of a manager if Leyland has ever won a game for them? Theyll never say thay but they will have a ton of losses to pin on him.

Just goes to show thay they're full of shit. They believe their bullshit though. They'll fight to the death about it

 

[manchild98]

It falls on deaf ears. They want to blame the manager because that's just what they do.

Here's a litmus test, have you ever read posts by these people who overstate the role of a manager if Leyland has ever won a game for them? Theyll never say thay but they will have a ton of losses to pin on him.

Just goes to show thay they're full of shit. They believe their bullshit though. They'll fight to the death about it

I understand people saying they would have made this move or not that move but I don't get the he panicked in the 8th inning comments. That wasn't panic. That was a manager who knew he could go with the best possible match ups because he just needed to get to the 9th. You knew right away in the 8th there was going to be some combo of righty lefty. There's no reason to really stick with someone just because when you think you have a better match up. So you bring in a righty, then go with the lefty match up and then go back to a righty again. You see crap like that all the time in the playoffs....sometimes even in the regular season.

He yanked the relievers after they made a mistake and not before then. It sucked that between our 3 best middle relievers that they couldn't get it to Benoit for the 9th and the 9th only. It sucks for us that the BP didn't perform real well last night. It really sucked that Benoit didn't locate that pitch better or that Papi didn't mishit it by an inch. It happened and it sucks.

 

[tigermud]

Ahhhhh FFS tomorrow's start can't come soon enough!

 

[UMRules06]

I understand people saying they would have made this move or not that move but I don't get the he panicked in the 8th inning comments. That wasn't panic. That was a manager who knew he could go with the best possible match ups because he just needed to get to the 9th. You knew right away in the 8th there was going to be some combo of righty lefty. There's no reason to really stick with someone just because when you think you have a better match up. So you bring in a righty, then go with the lefty match up and then go back to a righty again. You see crap like that all the time in the playoffs....sometimes even in the regular season.

He yanked the relievers after they made a mistake and not before then. It sucked that between our 3 best middle relievers that they couldn't get it to Benoit for the 9th and the 9th only. It sucks for us that the BP didn't perform real well last night. It really sucked that Benoit didn't locate that pitch better or that Papi didn't mishit it by an inch. It happened and it sucks.

Yea it's natural for people to be second guessers. If he left Veras in and he blew it all by himself, people would complain that he let Veras go for too long. It's how it works.

 

[biggunsbob]

You guys are laughable to think Leyland did not screw that inning up... One of you said that we can win game seven in NY.. Well I remember Smyly pitching a full inning verses those fucks... To burn through 4 relief pitchers in that inning is unforgivable.Ok Veras is out... Let your second best relief pitcher get the L/R/L out.. Not have JS for Ortiz is freaking a joke if we have no other lefty to use.. Jim has already said he hates using JB with runners on... Let your other guys pitch. One batter each .It really is funny because it was still a 5-1 game with and JS could have Pitched to Victorino and Ortiz and if one of you says JB is a better match-up with Ortiz the Punch yourself in face.. Jim made a cardinal sin last night and had faith in none of his pitchers after Max. Way to go Jim now your bullpen will pitch scared.


AGAIN WHY IS COKE ON THE ROSTER IS NOT TO GET ORTIZ?

 

[xer0]

Leyland apologists are the most delusional bunch of them all.

 

[kalinecountry]

Leyland used up + burned through 4 relievers in that 1 inning, when has he ever done that before?

Leyland constantly gets a pass by the two more vociferous pro-management people here.
I get it, the players failed, and the manager can do no wrong.

My closer association living here and of watching shitsox games, I could just feel something was going to happen after Max was given the handshake of doom, the sword of damocles.

an esteemed poster here, I thought was going to pop a blood vessel, seriously, I already had a headache the last 2 innings, and then reading it all got a migraine.

It will be all over soon.