Great tweet

[Spartanmack]

from Brett Stephens for all the people who praised/are still praising Obama for withdrawing troops from Iraq...

500 more troops for Iraq brings total to 6400. If we'd never gotten out, we'd be in same place. Minus ISIS. http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-military-seeks-more-troops-for-iraq-1474502709 ? via @WSJ

Oops. Bob, allow me to preempt you by pointing out that Bush was bad.

 

[Thumb]

Retarded tweet, not surprised you're so fond of it though.

Twitter is a cancer. Taking incredibly complicated situations but narrowing them down to a handful of characters in simplistic a one liner always proves a point.

But yeah, if we had stayed in Iraq, all the while hemorrhaging American lives there would be no ISIS. Pay no attention to all that other insurgency that was going on, the point here is blame Obama anyways.

 

[biggunsbob]

Whatever Hack. Did Bush lie or not lie about the information to go to war. He lied the GOP does nothing but lie. The vote was taken for that war with faulty information from a lying administration. They probably learned it from studying history from the Reagan admistration and all record indictments from that corrupt admistration had. Well done. He lied period. His admistration was a joke. One of the worst ever if not the worst setting up the next president after him in a no win situation. With a Gop that said from the outset they would never work with him. He should have never tried to compromise with them because it cost him big time.

 

[byco42]

A lot of people on Twitter actually offer links to substantiate their tweets. Others don't. Twitter can be a great source of information to consider that would not otherwise be known.

 

[Spartanmack]

Whatever Hack. Did Bush lie or not lie about the information to go to war. He lied the GOP does nothing but lie. The vote was taken for that war with faulty information from a lying administration. They probably learned it from studying history from the Reagan admistration and all record indictments from that corrupt admistration had. Well done. He lied period. His admistration was a joke. One of the worst ever if not the worst setting up the next president after him in a no win situation. With a Gop that said from the outset they would never work with him. He should have never tried to compromise with them because it cost him big time.

You're nothing if not reliable Bob. Obama never got anything wrong because everything is Bush's fault. And no, Bush did not lie to go to war.

 

[Spartanmack]

Retarded tweet, not surprised you're so fond of it though.

Twitter is a cancer. Taking incredibly complicated situations but narrowing them down to a handful of characters in simplistic a one liner always proves a point.

But yeah, if we had stayed in Iraq, all the while hemorrhaging American lives there would be no ISIS. Pay no attention to all that other insurgency that was going on, the point here is blame Obama anyways.

a handful of characters? apparently you missed the link.

 

[Michchamp]

Retarded tweet, not surprised you're so fond of it though.

Twitter is a cancer. Taking incredibly complicated situations but narrowing them down to a handful of characters in simplistic a one liner always proves a point.

But yeah, if we had stayed in Iraq, all the while hemorrhaging American lives there would be no ISIS. Pay no attention to all that other insurgency that was going on, the point here is blame Obama anyways.

not to mention the fact that the withdrawal and time table to leave Iraq was negotiated by the Bush Administration before leaving office, and the Obama Administration actually tried to negotiate a right to stay there longer, but the Iraqis refused. and this is all public record. I'm not making this up.

but that's a great tweet, fuckface.

 

[biggunsbob]

You're nothing if not reliable Bob. Obama never got anything wrong because everything is Bush's fault. And no, Bush did not lie to go to war.

Your just a piece of crap who offers nothing but drivel on this board. I have never said Obama has done everything right so stop your lying right there, and yes the Bush administration used lies to get his war. Reliable lol. You post the same right wing crap day after day. Day after day, day after day.

 

[tinselwolverine]

not to mention the fact that the withdrawal and time table to leave Iraq was negotiated by the Bush Administration before leaving office, and the Obama Administration actually tried to negotiate a right to stay there longer, but the Iraqis refused.

I thought implementing the Bush negotiated draw down was the whole reason for Obama retaining Robert Gates as Secretary of Defense.

This from the Cato Institute sort of summarizes your claim.

...he (Obama) followed the Bush administration’s withdrawal timetable and honored his predecessor’s agreement with the Maliki government...Iraqi’s rulers decided to go it alone...Iraqis wanted U.S. troops to go home. Americans would not have allowed the French military to stick around after they won their independence from Great Britain. With domestic enemies weakened and foreign enemies absent, Iraqis saw little need for a permanent U.S. presence....

Although everybody knows those Cato folks are a bunch of untrustworthy pinkos, so we should take all this with a grain of salt...

Plus I thought Mike Barnacle just established that ISIS started in Aleppo, in Syria...

 

[Gulo Blue]

I thought implementing the Bush negotiated draw down was the whole reason for Obama retaining Robert Gates as Secretary of Defense.

This from the Cato Institute sort of summarizes your claim.

...he (Obama) followed the Bush administration?s withdrawal timetable and honored his predecessor?s agreement with the Maliki government...Iraqi?s rulers decided to go it alone....

Although everybody knows those Cato folks are a bunch of untrustworthy pinkos, so we should take all this with a grain of salt...

Plus I thought Mike Barnacle just established that ISIS started in Aleppo, in Syria...

Yup. Obama stuck to the draw down plan that was in place before he got there. But everyone gives him credit or blame for it. Even Dick Cheney criticized him for it. It was probably Dick Cheney's plan in the first place.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Yup. Obama stuck to the draw down plan that was in place before he got there. But everyone gives him credit or blame for it. Even Dick Cheney criticized him for it. It was probably Dick Cheney's plan in the first place.

Probably.

It's kind of like Trump and Giuliani defining what "George Bush kept us safe for eight years" exactly means...I guess it means what it's expedient for it to mean depending on who you're telling it to...

 

[biggunsbob]

How much did Dick Cheney profit from Halliburton? The number I keep seeing is 34 million dollars. Wtf

Going to war sure does pay for some people.

 

[byco42]

IMO: It's on us for electing these people. There's a protest that's going on in Charlotte that should really mushroom into the American Body Politic marching on Washington to demand the restoration of the republic.

 

[Michchamp]

How much did Dick Cheney profit from Halliburton? The number I keep seeing is 34 million dollars. Wtf

Going to war sure does pay for some people.

It was more like a bribe. he resigned from the company prior to taking the job as VP. in May of 2001, he amended his financial disclosures to reflect that Halliburton gave him additional compensation totalling about $35 million before he stepped into office.

Halliburton, an oil drilling supply firm, then made over 1,000 times (well into 30 BILLION with a B) that in no-bid contracts for building army bases, toilets, showers, etc in Iraq. heck of an "investment" from Halliburton.

sometimes corruption is so brazen and shocking - he lead us into war for this! we actually invaded another country for no good reason! - that people just kinda put their heads into the sand and tell themselves "no it can't really be like that."

but sure, blame Obama for screwing up Iraq by entering the scene at the 11th hour...

 

[tinselwolverine]

Halliburton was selected by the Army Corp of Engineers, supposedly non-partisan career military bureaucrats.

Halliburton has long been a leader in its industry, and was certainly a qualified choice for what they were contracted to do.

I don't know how much influence the administration had or didn't have in making the decision.

I thought at the time, the administration should have requested the Army Corp of Engineers to deselect Halliburton and select Schlumberger or another qualified contractor to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

 

[Michchamp]

Halliburton was selected by the Army Corp of Engineers, supposedly non-partisan career military bureaucrats.

Halliburton has long been a leader in its industry, and was certainly a qualified choice for what they were contracted to do.

I don't know how much influence the administration had or didn't have in making the decision.

I thought at the time, the administration should have requested the Army Corp of Engineers to deselect Halliburton and select Schlumberger or another qualified contractor to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

they didn't because Schlumberger didn't pay Cheney $35 MM before he got into office.

 

[tinselwolverine]

they didn't because Schlumberger didn't pay Cheney $35 MM before he got into office.

I don't know that the Army Corp of Engineers would or wouldn't have cared about that.

But here is the Army Corp of Engineers website.

 

[Spartanmack]

I thought implementing the Bush negotiated draw down was the whole reason for Obama retaining Robert Gates as Secretary of Defense.

This from the Cato Institute sort of summarizes your claim.

...he (Obama) followed the Bush administration?s withdrawal timetable and honored his predecessor?s agreement with the Maliki government...Iraqi?s rulers decided to go it alone...Iraqis wanted U.S. troops to go home. Americans would not have allowed the French military to stick around after they won their independence from Great Britain. With domestic enemies weakened and foreign enemies absent, Iraqis saw little need for a permanent U.S. presence....

Although everybody knows those Cato folks are a bunch of untrustworthy pinkos, so we should take all this with a grain of salt...

Plus I thought Mike Barnacle just established that ISIS started in Aleppo, in Syria...

Yup. Obama stuck to the draw down plan that was in place before he got there. But everyone gives him credit or blame for it. Even Dick Cheney criticized him for it. It was probably Dick Cheney's plan in the first place.

This would be a great defense for Obama if the Bush timeline weren't subject change due to conditions or even criticism AND it was the only factor to consider. But it's not the only thing that matters and it doesn't absolve him of any blame or responsibility. When you consider the fact that all the military leaders were telling him leaving when we did would be a complete disaster and you see that these same advisers were calling for a force of up to 23k troops, then the analysis isn't so cut and dry.

 

[Spartanmack]

It was more like a bribe. he resigned from the company prior to taking the job as VP. in May of 2001, he amended his financial disclosures to reflect that Halliburton gave him additional compensation totalling about $35 million before he stepped into office.

Halliburton, an oil drilling supply firm, then made over 1,000 times (well into 30 BILLION with a B) that in no-bid contracts for building army bases, toilets, showers, etc in Iraq. heck of an "investment" from Halliburton.

sometimes corruption is so brazen and shocking - he lead us into war for this! we actually invaded another country for no good reason! - that people just kinda put their heads into the sand and tell themselves "no it can't really be like that."

but sure, blame Obama for screwing up Iraq by entering the scene at the 11th hour...

You watch too much Chris Matthews. The amended disclosure included the exercise of stock options for $34MM, not new or additional comp or as you say "bribes". Now you can argue if that is excessive or not, but that's not the point. The point is, it was all part of his compensation package, negotiated with the board of Haliburton well before he was ever considered for the VP spot and has nothing to do with a bribe or bonus for becoming VP.

 

[tinselwolverine]

This would be a great defense for Obama if the Bush timeline weren't subject change due to conditions or even criticism AND it was the only factor to consider. But it's not the only thing that matters and it doesn't absolve him of any blame or responsibility. When you consider the fact that all the military leaders were telling him leaving when we did would be a complete disaster and you see that these same advisers were calling for a force of up to 23k troops, then the analysis isn't so cut and dry.

I wouldn't say I'm neither defending nor criticizing Obama, and I have no idea what McCain would have done with regards to the Bush timeline had he been elected.

I thought per Gates's is advisements the drawdown was delayed for a while.

The tweet in the OP claims that the drawdown directly led to the rise of ISIS. To me, that's kind of an "if frogs had wings" speculation.

None of Bush, Cheney, Gates, or McCain recommended keeping troops in Iraq as a deterrent to something that didn't even exist at the time.

EDIT: I should metre my hyperbole. It didn't exist as anything that anyone considered relevant until 2013.