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NFL draft

I think in the NFL too it is really easy to pass on someone who has question marks of whatever type. There are too many other choices and if they have the slightest reason to doubt a pick they'll pass that decision on to the next team to worry about (and especially if you have someone like Johnny Manziell fresh in your mind, different issue but same thought process). Less so in the NBA where you don't want to be the guy who passes on the next franchise player.
 
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MSUMatt28 said:
I think his physical skills were overrated and never saw him as a first rounder, more a late second rounder at best. He is good, not great in a lot of areas (arm strength, athleticism) but not in a way that jumps out at you. And accuracy issues are a big deal in the NFL where there are really tight spaces to throw the ball into. We've seen him do that but he needs to be more consistent with it.

With that said, the way these NFL folks with all their gutless anonymous quotes have picked apart his character for just the dumbest things (and non-specific ones at that) has been really petty and unfair. Put a name behind the quote and own it you chicken-shits.

As for Hackenberg that pick is really a reach. He does have a big arm and showed promise as a freshman. But the book on him now with everyone else except for the Jets is that his pocket presence is atrocious, and that is every bit as much of his problem as the bad O-lines he played with at Penn State the last two years.
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I completely agree on Cook talent wise and have probably given the wrong impression of my opinion on this thread. My comments here are just in the context of what's been said about him by the "experts" who projected him to be a first rounder and how it's actually played out so far.

That said, it's a weak draft for QBs and I think talent wise he's probably a top 3 guy. So perhaps Cook may get drafted a little below where he actually should if he's late 2nd or 3rd round talent but in my opinion there's a pretty good chance that Goff and Wentz end up being bigger draft mistakes (and Hackenberg - he sucks).
 
Spartanmack said:
The character thing may be overblown but I think it is the main driver of his precipitous fall in the draft - unless his shoulder is shot but that doesn't seem to be the case based on what was published after the pro day. Stories like this take on a life of their own and it can easily get to the point where nobody wants to look bad taking a chance on a guy everyone thinks has personality flaws. At this point it looks like he's going to drop until some team sees him as a free option on his talent - seems like he's already there but we'll see.

At the NFL level, being a leader isn't about being the guy that takes the podium at the pep rally or gives the rah rah speeches. Leadership in the NFL is probably more about being the guy people trust and believe can get the job done.
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That is a good point. It's as much a leadership by example sort of thing and a level of professionalism that earns everyone's respect. And yeah getting the job done. If you're not doing that nothing else matters. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady as examples of that.

How that applies or equates to Cook I'm not really sure not being in that lockerroom.
 
The blown out of proportion captaincy stuff aside, I think arm strength was the question that dropped Cook and he didn't catch a break with the injury. We all saw that his arm was jello after that shoulder injury, but he played anyway. He missed the senior bowl to try to get the shoulder better, but then he went to the combine when it still wasn't 100% and the velocity was less than it should have be en. His pro day it was reportedly much better, but maybe the idea that he didn't have a strong arm had already taken root too much in NFL circles. He gambled by going to the combine, but if he didn't then the talk would have been all about how badly damaged his shoulder might be. He lost on that gamble, but ends up in a decent situation where he can learn behind a good QB and and either be traded to be a starter or beat out Carr to start.
 
Sbee said:
Your guess is as good as mine but the character thing has to be way overblown. We follow this program extensively and there was no report of any transgression by cook. He may not be a natural leader but it's not like he has an long rap sheet or history of suspensions like other players drafted ahead of him.

Also, is being a vocal leader that important in the NFL? Do multimillionaires really respond well to rah rah stuff?
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At end of the day NFL teams drafts talent. Why Gas Mask Bong guy got drafted 13.
 
Mitchrapp said:
At end of the day NFL teams drafts talent. Why Gas Mask Bong guy got drafted 13.
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It has to be a performance thing. To compare the character of Cook to say Jameis Winston or Taylor Lewan is laughable. Talent will get you drafted early and both of those guys were highly talented and obviously low character types. I think the injury hurt cook more than not being a capitan.
 
Burbridge went to San Fran, Donovan Clark to the Chargers. Jack Allen and Lawrence Thomas have a shot to go late.
 
UFA's

Arjen Colquhoun-Dallas
Jack Allen-New Orleans
Lawrence Thomas-Jets
Darien Harris-Cincy
Joel Heath-Houston
 
johnny2x2x said:
The blown out of proportion captaincy stuff aside, I think arm strength was the question that dropped Cook and he didn't catch a break with the injury. We all saw that his arm was jello after that shoulder injury, but he played anyway. He missed the senior bowl to try to get the shoulder better, but then he went to the combine when it still wasn't 100% and the velocity was less than it should have be en. His pro day it was reportedly much better, but maybe the idea that he didn't have a strong arm had already taken root too much in NFL circles. He gambled by going to the combine, but if he didn't then the talk would have been all about how badly damaged his shoulder might be. He lost on that gamble, but ends up in a decent situation where he can learn behind a good QB and and either be traded to be a starter or beat out Carr to start.
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Sbee said:
It has to be a performance thing. To compare the character of Cook to say Jameis Winston or Taylor Lewan is laughable. Talent will get you drafted early and both of those guys were highly talented and obviously low character types. I think the injury hurt cook more than not being a capitan.
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I'm not convinced. if it was his arm or some other performance related issue(s), all these guys speaking anonymously would have said it was physical/performance related. why speak anonymously then make up some bullshit? makes no sense.
 
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Maybe they saw this picture.

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Spartanmack said:
I'm not convinced. if it was his arm or some other performance related issue(s), all these guys speaking anonymously would have said it was physical/performance related. why speak anonymously then make up some bullshit? makes no sense.
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Explain how a kid being considered cocky can drop a kid 3 rounds but kids ahead of him failed drug tests, assaulted women, and actually been involved in murder investigations? I agree that he's cocky, some people don't respond well to that, but Calhoun, Harris, Conklin, and Allen came to his defense during the draft. Darqueze and Fowler didn't have to tweet out the things they did in his defense. The team seemed to rally around him, remember him and TOC, Terry huddling together on the sideline in the OSU game? he was out but was a vocal as anyone on the bench. This is the guy who gave his BT title game MVP trophy to his linemen. Yes he's cocky and can rub someone the wrong way but I think that's a very small part of why he fell. If it was a major factor, that's crazy. I think lower completion percentage, Bama loss, etc had more to do with it. Skipping the Senior bowl irked some but I think it's obvious he wasn't 100% until MSU's pro day.

The NFL drafts guys like Jameis Wiston and Taylor Lewan, they might use personality as a tipping factor between two players but they go with the guys that will win them games, not popularity contests.
 
JScottWriter said:
That picture has already been brought up in this thread.
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no that was actually a different pic. looks the same, right?

he and that other gay guy took the same pic each year for all four years. they used the same hairdresser every time.
 
Sbee said:
Explain how a kid being considered cocky can drop a kid 3 rounds but kids ahead of him failed drug tests, assaulted women, and actually been involved in murder investigations? I agree that he's cocky, some people don't respond well to that, but Calhoun, Harris, Conklin, and Allen came to his defense during the draft. Darqueze and Fowler didn't have to tweet out the things they did in his defense. The team seemed to rally around him, remember him and TOC, Terry huddling together on the sideline in the OSU game? he was out but was a vocal as anyone on the bench. This is the guy who gave his BT title game MVP trophy to his linemen. Yes he's cocky and can rub someone the wrong way but I think that's a very small part of why he fell. If it was a major factor, that's crazy. I think lower completion percentage, Bama loss, etc had more to do with it. Skipping the Senior bowl irked some but I think it's obvious he wasn't 100% until MSU's pro day.

The NFL drafts guys like Jameis Wiston and Taylor Lewan, they might use personality as a tipping factor between two players but they go with the guys that will win them games, not popularity contests.
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why should I have to explain any of that? If you insist, I can explain it very plainly - they have nothing to do with one another. What happened to Cook's draft stock is completely irrelevant to how many kids smoked pot or got into other kinds of trouble - plus, wasn't that kid already drafted before the video of him getting high came out? And so what if his teammates defended him? It was mostly as the draft was going on so it's a bit late for that. besides, if someone met with Cook and formed an opinion of him. Do you think an NFL GM gives a fuck what Jack Allen thinks about Cook or that a few other teammates sent out favorable tweets.

And I'll say it again - if these guys are speaking anonymously, why would they lie about why they didn't think Cook was worth an early round pick? If it was performance, why wouldn't they say that? They're anonymous. It makes no sense. I'm not saying they're right and that Cook definitely has personality issues but I think the story of his personality issues is very real, has taken on a life of it's own and has had an impact on his draft status.
 
Chiming in: I think that the Katzenstein article is written as a gossip column on the lines of Sid Hutchins.
 
Spartanmack said:
why should I have to explain any of that? If you insist, I can explain it very plainly - they have nothing to do with one another. What happened to Cook's draft stock is completely irrelevant to how many kids smoked pot or got into other kinds of trouble - plus, wasn't that kid already drafted before the video of him getting high came out? And so what if his teammates defended him? It was mostly as the draft was going on so it's a bit late for that. besides, if someone met with Cook and formed an opinion of him. Do you think an NFL GM gives a fuck what Jack Allen thinks about Cook or that a few other teammates sent out favorable tweets.

And I'll say it again - if these guys are speaking anonymously, why would they lie about why they didn't think Cook was worth an early round pick? If it was performance, why wouldn't they say that? They're anonymous. It makes no sense. I'm not saying they're right and that Cook definitely has personality issues but I think the story of his personality issues is very real, has taken on a life of it's own and has had an impact on his draft status.
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It may have had some impact on his draft status but if he completed 65% of his passes vs 57% I don't think it would have been an issue at all. I think it's all overblown, it's a story that gets clicks and gets people to pay attention on sportscenter. I think the reason he fell has a lot more to do with performance than perception but his personality is a juicy story.

As for the Jack Allen thing, I am not saying that NFL GM's care, it's just that people are making too big of a deal out of the personality thing. His current and former teammates were sticking up for him during the draft, of course it was late but they all expected him to go late first early second, I don't see the logic of sending out preemptive tweets supporting him. I use Winston as an example because he allegedly raped someone, shoplifted from a store, and jumped on a table at the union and yelled "fuck her right in the pussy." I don't think character really matters that much when it comes to your draft stock.
 
Sbee said:
Explain how a kid being considered cocky can drop a kid 3 rounds but kids ahead of him failed drug tests, assaulted women, and actually been involved in murder investigations? I agree that he's cocky, some people don't respond well to that, but Calhoun, Harris, Conklin, and Allen came to his defense during the draft. Darqueze and Fowler didn't have to tweet out the things they did in his defense. The team seemed to rally around him, remember him and TOC, Terry huddling together on the sideline in the OSU game? he was out but was a vocal as anyone on the bench. This is the guy who gave his BT title game MVP trophy to his linemen. Yes he's cocky and can rub someone the wrong way but I think that's a very small part of why he fell. If it was a major factor, that's crazy. I think lower completion percentage, Bama loss, etc had more to do with it. Skipping the Senior bowl irked some but I think it's obvious he wasn't 100% until MSU's pro day.

The NFL drafts guys like Jameis Wiston and Taylor Lewan, they might use personality as a tipping factor between two players but they go with the guys that will win them games, not popularity contests.
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http://detroitsportsrag.net/is-connor-cooks-dad-curt-schilling/#more-7716
 
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