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Stafford's next!!!
- Thread starter Tonyballs2
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Tonyballs2
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You know what I was getting at, man. Cmon lol
And i'm not comparing him to Brees or Rodgers. Let's not get crazy :nuts:
- Thread Author
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Tonyballs2
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Nobody cares
inkfreq
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2011 - 41 TDs, 5038 yards, 16 picks, 97.2 QBR... with Calvin
2012 - 20 TDs, 4967 yards, 17 picks, 79.8 QBR... with Calvin
2013 - 29 TDs, 4650 yards, 19 picks, 84.2 QBR... with Calvin
2014 - 22 TDs, 4257 yards, 12 picks, 85.7 QBR... with Calvin
2015 - 32 TDs, 4262 yards, 13 picks, 97.0 QBR... with Calvin
2016 - 24 TDs, 4327 yards, 10 picks, 93.3 QBR... without Calvin
Stafford has essentially been the same QB throughout his entire career, regardless of the receivers he's had. He's had some up years, some down years.. but his numbers are pretty consistent.
Now, no one questions that Calvin was one of the best receivers in his era, and among the best all-time..... but somehow his QB keeps roughly the same numbers with or without him?
At what point do we have to start giving Stafford credit for what he's doing? At what point do we need to acknowledge that Calvin got the ball because he had a good Qb to get him the ball, and without Calvin, that good QB has kept right on delivering to the next man up?
Make any argument you want about road wins against good teams, total QBR bullshit... blah blah blah. I've heard them all over the years. Every season the reason to knock Stafford changes, but one thing stays the same... he just keeps putting the numbers up, and the NFL experts keep expecting more and more as he gets a little closer to elite every year.
I honestly don't care who disagrees with me either. The fact is, he's doing what he's doing and in the discussions for things like "elite" and "MVP" with whoever is catching the ball, whoever is blocking, whoever is supposed to be running but is currently injured... so it's all bullshit to me.
He's a very good QB in my book, and we have quite a few wins over the last few seasons, two of which were playoff seasons, that we wouldn't have with someone else under center.
2012 - 20 TDs, 4967 yards, 17 picks, 79.8 QBR... with Calvin
2013 - 29 TDs, 4650 yards, 19 picks, 84.2 QBR... with Calvin
2014 - 22 TDs, 4257 yards, 12 picks, 85.7 QBR... with Calvin
2015 - 32 TDs, 4262 yards, 13 picks, 97.0 QBR... with Calvin
2016 - 24 TDs, 4327 yards, 10 picks, 93.3 QBR... without Calvin
Stafford has essentially been the same QB throughout his entire career, regardless of the receivers he's had. He's had some up years, some down years.. but his numbers are pretty consistent.
Now, no one questions that Calvin was one of the best receivers in his era, and among the best all-time..... but somehow his QB keeps roughly the same numbers with or without him?
At what point do we have to start giving Stafford credit for what he's doing? At what point do we need to acknowledge that Calvin got the ball because he had a good Qb to get him the ball, and without Calvin, that good QB has kept right on delivering to the next man up?
Make any argument you want about road wins against good teams, total QBR bullshit... blah blah blah. I've heard them all over the years. Every season the reason to knock Stafford changes, but one thing stays the same... he just keeps putting the numbers up, and the NFL experts keep expecting more and more as he gets a little closer to elite every year.
I honestly don't care who disagrees with me either. The fact is, he's doing what he's doing and in the discussions for things like "elite" and "MVP" with whoever is catching the ball, whoever is blocking, whoever is supposed to be running but is currently injured... so it's all bullshit to me.
He's a very good QB in my book, and we have quite a few wins over the last few seasons, two of which were playoff seasons, that we wouldn't have with someone else under center.
Amen brother.
He's a good QB no matter his rating. The team drags down his rating in 2012-2014. Injury in 2016.
Calvin is great and helped Stafford (every QB deserves a good number 1). Calvin also wasn't always healthy especially 2013, 2014, 2015 too. Also you need several weapons. in this league 2012 and 2013 he just flat out didn't have several weapons (some due to injury to weapons). From 2014 and on he had plenty of weapons and has improved. But 2014 and half of 2015 he had Lombardi and poor protection and 2014-2016 the run game has been atrocious.
Stafford is a good QB. Putting up mid 80s, low 90s or upper 90s compared to what he has had to deal with. He's always has been good, now he's great the last season and a half.
There is one team in the last 6 seasons that doesn't have 9,000 yards rushing total. One.That team is the Detroit Lions. A lot of teams have 11,000 or more rushing yards in this six year span. Half the league (16 teams) has 300 more yards rushing than Stafford PER SEASON. Some teams get 400-600 more yards rushing PER season. Seattle has over 13,000 rushing yards in that same 6 season span. 4,000 more than Detroit. Insane.
You know what caused this run game issue. Four of Stafford six seasons from 2011-2016, yes four, his top rusher missed 11 or more games each season. Best/Leshoure, Best, good 2013 but still bottom 15 in yards, Bush hurt 2014, good 2015 but Abdullah a rookie with Lombardi as OC early and Abdullah in 2016. Injuries and Lombardi crushed the run game. Plus the coaches aren't confident in backups so Stafford has to do more. More attempts lead to more int opportunities in known passing situations.
Drops. 195. Most in the league in the last 6 seasons. By far over most teams. 23 teams get 6 or more less drops PER SEASON. Some teams like Seattle, Dallas, Chargers average 12-14 less drops per season in the last six seasons.
Short fields. 95. Second least in the league (CLE) in the last 6 seasons
The guy got no help. Least short fields, way less rushing yards than every team. Closest team was Giants with 40 yards more per season on average. And most drops. Then you get 2012/2013 weapon injuries, then you get Lombardi for 1.5 years then you get protection issues in 2014 and first half 2015.
It's a death sentence for most QBs but Stafford has excelled. He is elite. The Lions should build a statue of him outside for Ford Field right now.
You know what caused this run game issue. Four of Stafford six seasons from 2011-2016, yes four, his top rusher missed 11 or more games each season. Best/Leshoure, Best, good 2013 but still bottom 15 in yards, Bush hurt 2014, good 2015 but Abdullah a rookie with Lombardi as OC early and Abdullah in 2016. Injuries and Lombardi crushed the run game. Plus the coaches aren't confident in backups so Stafford has to do more. More attempts lead to more int opportunities in known passing situations.
Drops. 195. Most in the league in the last 6 seasons. By far over most teams. 23 teams get 6 or more less drops PER SEASON. Some teams like Seattle, Dallas, Chargers average 12-14 less drops per season in the last six seasons.
Short fields. 95. Second least in the league (CLE) in the last 6 seasons
The guy got no help. Least short fields, way less rushing yards than every team. Closest team was Giants with 40 yards more per season on average. And most drops. Then you get 2012/2013 weapon injuries, then you get Lombardi for 1.5 years then you get protection issues in 2014 and first half 2015.
It's a death sentence for most QBs but Stafford has excelled. He is elite. The Lions should build a statue of him outside for Ford Field right now.
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tomdalton22
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so, you finally admit that the Lions have been terrible over the past 6 seasons. You constantly said this was a good / great team....a playoff team. But when you are trying to argue that Stafford is great you throw the rest of the team under the bus.
got it.
Thanks for clearing it up for us
Read what I wrote.
Injured. Not terrible. Top backs out 11+ games 4 of 6 seasons.
WR injuries in 2012 and 2013
Lombardi was a terrible coach. I admit that freely
Defense had talent. 2012 and 2013 had issues though. 2015 D got screwed by turnovers in first half of the season but good second half. 2016 13th PPG but 3 of top 4 players hurt most of the season.
The defenses had the talent to be good. some years they were good but some years 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016 they didn't force enough turnovers.
I admit we had major injuries
Plus playoffs 3 of 6 years. So 3 of the teams for sure not bad with Stafford leading the way
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inkfreq
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If I have to read any more stupid excuses from you I am going to vomit.
Injuries happen to EVERY team. It's part of football.
"Oh, Stafford wasn't full speed the last 4 games or..."... horse shit. Brady missed the first four games of last season suspended and they STILL won the Super Bowl.
Every team deals with the same shit. We aren't unlucky, we just aren't good. And we haven't been for a long time.
We have good pieces, we do NOT have a good team.
All injuries are not equal. Some teams get more than others some years. Those are just facts. This assumption that everyone has the same injuries and it affects the team the same way is beyond. Every stop making it. Right now
Brady was healthy during playoffs. Also pats used tow high picks on 2 backup qbs. And they got p,entry of run game and defensive support in those games Stafford was hurt doing playoff run. Give me Stafford hurt first 4 games instead of playoffs every single time
It's not an excuse. It's a very legitimate reason for Stafford to have mid 80s qb rating. Qb rating is a team stat really that people need to understand
Bad weapons from injuries, high drops, high non qb fumbles, no short fields, and run game issues. Bad oc and poor protection in 2014 and first half 2015. All those combined can drag a qb down and the team down
inkfreq
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Good teams draft good players. Good coaches turn good players into winners. Simple as that.
The Brady comparison wasn't about the injury. It's about the fact that the Pats went 3-1 with a backup and a third string QB. If the Lions lost Stafford, we'd be 100% fucked.
Injuries do happen, and they are not all equal. The best teams have backups that can play. We lose a LT and we're so screwed we're digging through the scrap heap.
Quinn may make this a good team in time, but let's stop pretending we are already a good team. We have RBs that can't stay healthy, receivers that can't get open, DLs that can't get to the QB, a gaping hole at LB that has us looking at a guy with a serious medical history, unknowns at CB, and aging Safeties. There is not one unit on this entire team that can deal with a major injury right now.
That is not the mark of a good team, and you want to talk like they are in the same category with the Pats, Packers, etc...
We're a team relying on luck to get the job done right now. If we're lucky enough to avoid major injuries, we can make the playoffs again... and our luck didn't make it's way through OTAs.
Injuries are an excuse for failure. Great teams don't rely on excuses.
This is a top 5 roster in the league. There is talent all over the place. Good QB, good running backs, plenty of good weapons, one of top OLines in the league, very solid defensive line, revamped young LB talent and good secondary and good ST. The Lions are set for 2017 and are playoff caliber and more.
3 of top 4 defenders got hurt last year which crushed the Lions defense. Top RB got hurt. LBs sucked last year and got revamped already. Nickel sucked and got revamped. Dline much better with healthy Ansah. Changes were made there too. This is a much better team in 2017 than 2016. This 2017 is better than the 2011 or 2014 team IMO which were good teams.
Most teams have junk or big downgrades at backup LT. Lions added former 2nd overall pick in the draft and a 2nd round pick that actually was a good backup LT for the Bills. Kouandijo available due to off field and injury. Lions now have more talent than most teams at LT with Decker, Kouandijo and Robinson. Plus Decker could only miss 4-6 games.
The Patriots use two high picks on those backup QBs. The QBs got extreme support in those games on defense and run game . Jimmy G was a 2nd round pick. Bob Quinn is using the 6th round approach.
Good defense (with a healthy defense, Lions defense wasn't healthy) and good run game (healthy Blount, again we lost Abdullah and then later Riddick). That is the difference. Patriots had healthy D and run game. The Patriots defense allowed 15.5 PPG average in those 4 games they went 3-1. A healthy Lions defense can do the same in a 4 game span. And I'm confident Rudock or Kaaya could get Detroit to 16 points in a game.
2nd round pick Jimmy G had 113 rating, Brissett (a 3rd round pick) 83. The Patriots had over 100 yards in 3 games of those 4. The one game they didn't get 100, they lost and got shut out. Lions had 3 100 yard rushing games all season (due to Abdullah injury). Pats got it in their first 3 games. Lions had 2 of their 3 in the 2 games Abdullah played.
3 of top 4 defenders got hurt last year which crushed the Lions defense. Top RB got hurt. LBs sucked last year and got revamped already. Nickel sucked and got revamped. Dline much better with healthy Ansah. Changes were made there too. This is a much better team in 2017 than 2016. This 2017 is better than the 2011 or 2014 team IMO which were good teams.
Most teams have junk or big downgrades at backup LT. Lions added former 2nd overall pick in the draft and a 2nd round pick that actually was a good backup LT for the Bills. Kouandijo available due to off field and injury. Lions now have more talent than most teams at LT with Decker, Kouandijo and Robinson. Plus Decker could only miss 4-6 games.
The Patriots use two high picks on those backup QBs. The QBs got extreme support in those games on defense and run game . Jimmy G was a 2nd round pick. Bob Quinn is using the 6th round approach.
Good defense (with a healthy defense, Lions defense wasn't healthy) and good run game (healthy Blount, again we lost Abdullah and then later Riddick). That is the difference. Patriots had healthy D and run game. The Patriots defense allowed 15.5 PPG average in those 4 games they went 3-1. A healthy Lions defense can do the same in a 4 game span. And I'm confident Rudock or Kaaya could get Detroit to 16 points in a game.
2nd round pick Jimmy G had 113 rating, Brissett (a 3rd round pick) 83. The Patriots had over 100 yards in 3 games of those 4. The one game they didn't get 100, they lost and got shut out. Lions had 3 100 yard rushing games all season (due to Abdullah injury). Pats got it in their first 3 games. Lions had 2 of their 3 in the 2 games Abdullah played.
tomdalton22
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LKP...in mid-season form!
Nah, mid-season would be complaining how we only play teams when they are hot. How even though other teams lose All-pro players, somehow the injury to our long snapper is bigger loss. Something about wind. How false starts are bias against the lions. Then some equation about years in the league + time with the team x another year under the coach will result in big things in 2018.
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It was starters not entire roster.
PFF downgraded Ebron for blocking, he's got a decent receiving grade. And he won't be doing much blocking with Fells and Robert in the mix. Fells is a good blocker. Roberts rookie with talent.
They used TJ Jones grade for 3rd WR. Should be Golladay ungraded
Used Whitehead inside LB grade from 2016. Should use the 2015 outside LB grade which is much better
Ansah's grade was aveage due to injury. He'll have a good grade
Stafford grade good not elite due to injury. He'll have an elite grade
Diggs had a bad grade but solid 2015 grade. We'll see how that works out with Diggs versus Hayden. Also Tabor could win job and Lawson with a solid grade would upgrade the nickel grade.
They gave Ngata, Glasgow, Robinson poor grades. I'm confident they can be solid or good players. Especially with two of them no longer rookies
PFF got it very wrong. Lions are a top 5 roster.
Great good QB, good running backs, good weapons with plenty of them in Jones, Ebron, Tate, Golladay, Riddick, Abdullah, Roberts, very good OLine with depth, good Dline with depth, solid revamped LBs with depth, good secondary with depth, good ST
Top 5 roster
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Tonyballs2
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Lmao.
inkfreq
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This whole thread just turned from debate into a reason for rehab.
There's no such thing as a small crack problem LKP. If you don't get help here, get help somewhere.
There's no such thing as a small crack problem LKP. If you don't get help here, get help somewhere.
boogerlovejoy
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This is the shit that gets him banned......he wont be around much longer. It's unfortunate when his discussions turn from blind homer-ism with SOME data to back his arguments to nonsensical bull-shit backed by nothing but excuses.
I'm looking forward to his next ban.....logical discussion will return before the season starts.
I've presented facts. I've done absolutely nothing to earn a ban. Maybe try to form your own points and debate.
I have plenty of support and reasoning for the Lions being a top 5 roster. Playoff team taking the next step forward. Revamped LB, CB, get Dline and RB health. This team can go far
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