Go Back   DetroitSportsForum > Sports > Detroit Lions
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-10-2017, 06:16 PM   #21
Mitchrapp   Mitchrapp is offline
Moderator
 
Mitchrapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 38,378
I'm hoping for the 9-7, 10-6 finish and no wild cards so Quinn can say good job finishing out. Here's your extension on your extension.
__________________
Trying to sneak a pitch past Hank Aaron is like trying to sneak a sunrise past a Rooster -- Joe Adcock

What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third -- Leo Durocher

The NFL can kiss my ass!!



Login or Register to Remove Ads
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 06:59 PM   #22
kdp1980   kdp1980 is offline
Senior Member
 
kdp1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4,541
Even if Caldwell stays, Cooter needs to go. Its a must
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 08:06 PM   #23
everyoneneedsasmil   everyoneneedsasmil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,736
I think the question of what Caldwell brings over an average coach is a great one. Obviously there are the things we can't really see as fans: do players like/trust him, does he motivate people, does he have a great eye in the film room. But, where does Caldwell rank in the things we can assess?

Does the team come prepared for every game? Do they appear to know the opponent's tendencies and adjust their tactics to squeeze out advantages? ... No, clearly not.

Does he manage the clock well, giving the team time when it needs and chewing up clock when the other team needs it? ... Jeez, Caldwell might literally be the worst time manager in the game right now.

Does he challenge well? That is, does he throw the flag when it's likely to go his way and does he hold the flag when it won't? Does he throw the flag when a play really matters, or just to get 3rd and 2 instead of 3rd and 1? ... Caldwell is actually pretty good with winning challenges, consistently winning half or better of his red flags.

Does he bring a positive identity to the team, consistently bringing out the best in a specific group or area of play? ... Given the wildly inconsistent play on both sides of the field, and the relatively invisible upgrades (not related to getting better players) to any groups, I can't think of what identity he might bring.

So basically, Caldwell is good at calling challenges, bad at managing time, and makes no discernible difference anywhere else. If we consider him at fault for the poor starts to games and his choice of coordinators (JBC), he only falls below average. I wouldn't be terribly upset if they kept him until they could opt out, but I really don't see anything about his tenure that screams "keep this guy." Caldwell seems like the poster boy for coaches who won't kill your team, but won't make them any better either.

Last edited by everyoneneedsasmil; 12-10-2017 at 08:07 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 08:13 PM   #24
Mitchrapp   Mitchrapp is offline
Moderator
 
Mitchrapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 38,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by everyoneneedsasmil View Post
I think the question of what Caldwell brings over an average coach is a great one. Obviously there are the things we can't really see as fans: do players like/trust him, does he motivate people, does he have a great eye in the film room. But, where does Caldwell rank in the things we can assess?

Does the team come prepared for every game? Do they appear to know the opponent's tendencies and adjust their tactics to squeeze out advantages? ... No, clearly not.

Does he manage the clock well, giving the team time when it needs and chewing up clock when the other team needs it? ... Jeez, Caldwell might literally be the worst time manager in the game right now.

Does he challenge well? That is, does he throw the flag when it's likely to go his way and does he hold the flag when it won't? Does he throw the flag when a play really matters, or just to get 3rd and 2 instead of 3rd and 1? ... Caldwell is actually pretty good with winning challenges, consistently winning half or better of his red flags.

Does he bring a positive identity to the team, consistently bringing out the best in a specific group or area of play? ... Given the wildly inconsistent play on both sides of the field, and the relatively invisible upgrades (not related to getting better players) to any groups, I can't think of what identity he might bring.

So basically, Caldwell is good at calling challenges, bad at managing time, and makes no discernible difference anywhere else. If we consider him at fault for the poor starts to games and his choice of coordinators (JBC), he only falls below average. I wouldn't be terribly upset if they kept him until they could opt out, but I really don't see anything about his tenure that screams "keep this guy." Caldwell seems like the poster boy for coaches who won't kill your team, but won't make them any better either.
Who cares if the players like him? Players always like their coaches. One or two players maybe not but when do we ever see or hear about a team of players hating their coach. The guy can't coach. And he's the one that keeps selecting these piss poor OC. That's on him as well. The only way he stays is if Quinn and Martha decide being mediocre is okay.
__________________
Trying to sneak a pitch past Hank Aaron is like trying to sneak a sunrise past a Rooster -- Joe Adcock

What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third -- Leo Durocher

The NFL can kiss my ass!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 08:25 PM   #25
everyoneneedsasmil   everyoneneedsasmil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchrapp View Post
Who cares if the players like him? Players always like their coaches. One or two players maybe not but when do we ever see or hear about a team of players hating their coach. The guy can't coach. And he's the one that keeps selecting these piss poor OC. That's on him as well. The only way he stays is if Quinn and Martha decide being mediocre is okay.
Being liked by the players isn't about touchy-feely kumbaya playing. It's just a question of motivation. If you like a coach, you're likely to play harder for him. That doesn't really seem to be the case, but players probably like that he's willing to take the blame all the time. We can't really know how that one plays out behind the scenes anyway, so it wasn't really a factor in the first place.

I think the team can do better. But at the same time, Martha has been around a long time. She, better than most, probably understands that mediocre is way above average for the Lions. We can bemoan it all day, but reality is that the Lions are still in the midst of growing up from league laughingstock to forgettably average. This is NOT a contender, much less a perennial contender that everybody takes notice of. I can absolutely understand how management might see a mediocre coach as something comfortably stable. We haven't even been average long enough (consistently enough) to say this all won't blow up with someone worse.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 09:13 PM   #26
Mitchrapp   Mitchrapp is offline
Moderator
 
Mitchrapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 38,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by everyoneneedsasmil View Post
Being liked by the players isn't about touchy-feely kumbaya playing. It's just a question of motivation. If you like a coach, you're likely to play harder for him.
How's that working out. Players seem to like Hue Jackson as well. Players are probably the worse to ask opinions of when it comes to coaches..
__________________
Trying to sneak a pitch past Hank Aaron is like trying to sneak a sunrise past a Rooster -- Joe Adcock

What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brush her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third -- Leo Durocher

The NFL can kiss my ass!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 09:19 PM   #27
LKP   LKP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 12,883
Only 6 or 7 teams would be able to say they made playoffs 3 of last four years this year. If Detroit makes it, Caldwell would be coaching one of those teams. Win out
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 09:20 PM   #28
dubbsco   dubbsco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,991
The thing that cracks me up about Caldwell is that whenever anyone describes him, they usually literally every adjective in the book other than saying, "he's a good coach."

Leader of men, calm, etc...
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 10:53 PM   #29
boogerlovejoy   boogerlovejoy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: MI
Posts: 7,550
I think Caldwell is a guy every team would love to have in their organization.....but not as a head coach. Some kind of assistant head coaching position that has no responsibilities.

He is a good man. Guys do love him. You want people like that in your locker room. But he's a terrible head coach. Just, really bad.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 11:18 PM   #30
mhughes0021   mhughes0021 is offline
Senior Member
 
mhughes0021's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 21,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogerlovejoy View Post
I think Caldwell is a guy every team would love to have in their organization.....but not as a head coach. Some kind of assistant head coaching position that has no responsibilities.

He is a good man. Guys do love him. You want people like that in your locker room. But he's a terrible head coach. Just, really bad.
He would be fine as a figurehead if he had people under him. But instead he has no one... were on our 2nd oc who has never called plays or have his own playbook. Being a good man obviously isnt enough.
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Top      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.