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Game of Thrones

Very, very happy to see that fan theory be true. Even if it was really obvious.

Yes, and Jon is the legitimate heir to Westeros. When the mad king died, it would have passed to his first born son, Rhaegar. When he died, it would have passed to his first born son, Jon. And I assume that Rhaegar secretly married Lyanna, which makes him not a bastard, too.

My only question is what happens when Jon and Dany find out the truth? I thought they'd be allies, but I don't know now. And who is possibly alive to verify Jon's birth? I don't think the word of Bran would mean much.
 
Tommen jumping had to have been the most shocking scene. I don't think anyone saw that coming. I thought he'd die of poison like his siblings did. Instead, it ended up exposing Cersei as a woman who wanted power more than anything. Sure, she was sad, but she was way too satisfied sitting on the iron throne.
 
One last thing...

I'm really happy for Tyrion. He deserves the new title and the revenge he's about to get. Daenarys really seems to care for him, which is what he has always wanted. It's not fake emotion from her, there are no strings attached, and he's not actually being used. He's been my favorite character since his first appearance, so I love this turn of events.
 
And who is possibly alive to verify Jon's birth? I don't think the word of Bran would mean much.

I'm thinking it will be something more dramatic. Like surviving dragon fire or having more authority over the dragons than Daenarys or something like that.
 
Yes, and Jon is the legitimate heir to Westeros. When the mad king died, it would have passed to his first born son, Rhaegar. When he died, it would have passed to his first born son, Jon. And I assume that Rhaegar secretly married Lyanna, which makes him not a bastard, too.

My only question is what happens when Jon and Dany find out the truth? I thought they'd be allies, but I don't know now. And who is possibly alive to verify Jon's birth? I don't think the word of Bran would mean much.



Some problems with these ideas.

When Aerys died, the throne passed to Rhaegar. But after Rhaegar dies it passes to Rhaegars brother, Visarys, because Rhaegar had no legitimate living offspring.

Also Jon was not Rhagars first born son, and could not be legitimate because Rhaegar was already married to Elaria Martell. His children were killed by Ser Armory Lorch and Ser Gregor Clegain (The Mountain that rides) and placed at King Roberts feet by Tywin Lannister to curry favor.

The big picture people are missing about Jon Snow is he really is Azor Azhai. The product of Ice and Fire (Stark = Ice, Targarayn = fire)

I believe eventually Jon will marry Danyarys and kill her to defeat the Night King by reforging Lightbringer.
 
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Some problems with these ideas.

When Aerys died, the throne passed to Rhaegar. But after Rhaegar dies it passes to Rhaegars brother, Visarys, because Rhaegar had no legitimate living offspring.

Also Jon was not Rhagars first born son, and could not be legitimate because Rhaegar was already married to Elaria Martell. His children were killed by Ser Armory Lorch and Ser Gregor Clegain (The Mountain that rides) and placed at King Roberts feet by Tywin Lannister to curry favor.

The big picture people are missing about Jon Snow is he really is Azor Azhai. The product of Ice and Fire (Stark = Ice, Targarayn = fire)

I believe eventually Jon will marry Danyarys and kill her to defeat the Night King by reforging Lightbringer.

Well, if R and L did marry in secret, Jon would have been the rightful heir all along. And yes, I made I mistake calling Jon the first born. I meant his eldest surving son. Visarys was meant to be king only because nobody knew about Jon.

Do you know when Elia Martell and her kids were killed compared to when Lyanna was "abducted?" If she died before that, he could have married Lyanna. If not, I'm not sure if the marriage could be allowed for Jon to be legitimate. If Jon is a bastard still, it'd be cool to see Dany make him legitimate and let him continue being King of the North.

Honestly never thought about the fire and ice thing. I'm just interested in what will happen between the two.
 
Easy, peasy. Sam finds some record of the marriage in the library, tells everyone, nobody believes him, Danny (or anyone) sets Snow on fire and he survives, then everyone believes. Bran's vision plays zero role (other than to tell the audience) though...unless Bran tells Sam what to look for.

That way you can get a Tolkien battle of 5 armies flip. Danny's people vs Jon's people stopped from fighting when Jon fails to ignite...uniting the opposed forces to face the real threat. Maybe Jon can ride a dragon too. Is there a 3rd potential Targaryen out there? It would be nice if there were 3 dragons and 3 riders.
 
Well, if R and L did marry in secret, Jon would have been the rightful heir all along. And yes, I made I mistake calling Jon the first born. I meant his eldest surving son. Visarys was meant to be king only because nobody knew about Jon.

Do you know when Elia Martell and her kids were killed compared to when Lyanna was "abducted?" If she died before that, he could have married Lyanna. If not, I'm not sure if the marriage could be allowed for Jon to be legitimate. If Jon is a bastard still, it'd be cool to see Dany make him legitimate and let him continue being King of the North.

Honestly never thought about the fire and ice thing. I'm just interested in what will happen between the two.


When Robert raised his army to rescue Lyanna Stark and bring Rhaegar to justice she was still alive. She was even alive after Robert killed Rheagar on the ruby ford of the trident, she was not killed until Ned Stark was nearly at Kings Landing. Tywin Lannister did not get involved until he knew who was going to win, then Jaime killed the Mad King and Tywin ordered Armor Lorch and The Mountain to kill the rest of the Targarayns. One of the kingsguard (I forget the name, smuggles the Queen, Viserys and unborn Dany out from Dragonstone to Pentos, where the queen dies in childbirth, hence why Dany has never seen the Seven Kingdoms.
 
Very, very happy to see that fan theory be true. Even if it was really obvious.

Ya GRRM laid the groundwork for this theory over 20 years ago in the first book. I didnt connect the dots myself until after finishing the 4th book, but as far as 'theories' go, R + L = J was about as rock solid as you can get, considering all of the foreshadowing which took place leading up to it.
 
https://imgur.com/a/jfhjD#hFrlWzW

heres a good map/story of Roberts Rebellion, which goes into detail about the whole Lyanna/Rhaeger situation.

Also, this guy from Reddit wrote a pretty spot on theory for why Rhaegar 'went off the rails' and kidnapped Lyanna. I was going to try and write something similar, but remembered reading this figured it was much better than I could do:

If you are only a fan of the show, Rhaegar's identity and actions are murky at best, so for those wanting a little background, I threw this together real quick. If you have read the books, this is all old news to you. This post contains heavy book spoilers regarding other characters on the show, not just Rhaegar.

Rhaegar was born during the Tragedy at Sumerhall. Sumerhall was exactly what it sounds like, a summer vacation spot for the Targaryen royal family. Now the details are sketchy, but the rumor is the Targs were trying to hatch dragon eggs through some sort of magical ritual that involved, you guessed it, a lot of fire. Whatever they were doing it went horribly wrong, and the fires burned down most of Summerhall, and a large portion of the Targaryen family with it. It was during this event that Rhaegar was born.

At a young age, Rhaegar was very bookish, without the least bit of martial inclination, leading many to joke his mother ate books when he was in the womb. One day, after reading an unknown tome, Rhaegar (R from here on out) marched up to the master at arms in the Red Keep and said something to the effect of "It seems I need to be a warrior. Train me." From that point on, R was one of the most respected warriors in all the in the Seven Kingdoms, rarely losing a tournament, and being held in awe by such notable BAMF's as Barristan Selmy and Jaime Lannister.

Now R never lost the melancholy that his birth left on him, and would often return to the ruins of Sumerhall alone. He constantly kept a very unique silver harp with him, and was known to play so well as to leave the ladies in tears. Basically, anything R did, he was one of the best in the world at.

R was the first born son of the Mad King Aerys Targaryen, the man would later murder Ned Stark's father and older brother Brandon. After Aerys refused to marry R to Cersei Lannister, he was instead wed to Elia of Dorne (the younger sister of Prince Oberyn, the Red Viper.) Elia gave him two children, who were later murdered by the Mountain in the sack of King's Landing. "You raped her! You Murdered her!" That was Rhaegar's wife, Elia and their children.

Along with Rhaegar, the Mad King also had two more children, Danerys and Viserys. But Rhaegar was the first born son, so any succession would go through him and his children. This is very important if you believe the theory behind Jon's true heritage, as it would mean his claim would come before Dany's, but we'll get back to that in a second.

Ok now that family trees are out of the way, after R and Elia had been married for a bit, there was a great tournament at Harrenal, the one mentioned by Littlefinger in the episode with Sansa in the crypts of Winterfell. So anyways, after winning a tournament, which R did, typically the victor would crown a woman as "The Quenn of Love and Beauty." This was a ceremonial title of course, and in this case R crowned Lyanna Stark, as opposed to his wife Elia. So this was were most people point to when the trouble began.

We don't ever get told exactly why R did this, but it's assumed he was privy to some type of prophecy that foretold of a dragon with three heads that would save the world, presumably from the Others. R already had a son, Aegon (murdered by the Mountain later on,) but since the prophecy stated the dragon would have three heads, he decided he would need another. And whoever this hypothetical son would be, his "would be the song of ice and fire," which is the actual name of the book series.

Still with me?

So at this point R kidnaps Lyanna Stark, who was betrothed to Robert Baratheon, and for this and other reasons, The Baratheons and Starks start a rebellion, and the Tullys and Arryns quickly join up. Until this point though, Rhaegar was basically the most beloved and respected man in all the Seven Kingdoms. That's why you saw Littlefinger pause when speaking to Sansa, the kidnapping story doesn't jive with who everyone thought R to be. Littlefinger may not know exactly the details of Lyanna's "kidnapping" and eventual death, but he is smart enough to know something doesn't fit.

So when R kidnaps Lyanna, he disappears with her for a long time, even though there is a rebellion going on. Eventually R comes out of hiding, and is killed by Robert at the Trident. Which leaves us at all the theories about Jon's parentage. But the main points are that, R was a well respected, level headed person, who supposedly did something crazy, and most readers assume he was simply attempting to fulfill a prophecy. And if you consider the Starks as ice, and the Targs as fire, you would get the literal embodiment of the Song of Ice and Fire, in Jon Snow (Targaryen.) And don't for a second think that Lyanna and R weren't married. Targaryens were known to take multiple wives, so R's marriage to Elia Martell would not have stopped him from marrying again. Jon is not a bastard, he's the son of two great houses. R would not start a war for a side chick, he needed a legitimate heir, one born through the marriage of Ice and Fire.

Rhaeger was characterized in the books as being good at everything he ever tried, including warfare. Despite being Lebron James good at warfare, Rhaegar always preferred a book and his harp to a shield and sword. Everything that Rhaegar did, including his actions with Lyanna, come across as someone performing a duty, sort of like the Spider Man mantra, with great power comes great responsibility.

If R was in fact carrying out a duty by giving birth to a child with Lyanna, he had to believe that it was for a higher purpose. R also had to know that the "kidnapping" of Lyanna would most likely lead to his death. He was smart enough to know that right off the bat, the Baratheons, Starks, Arryns, and Tullys would be gunning for him for various reasons. No matter how strong the monarchy is, you can't last if 4 of the 7 great houses are in rebellion, with the Lannisters loyalty always a dubious proposition since the Mad King had been pissing off Tywin for years at that point, you are down to just the Tyrells and Martells supporting the crown.

So R carried out the kidnapping knowing full well it would most likely lead to his death. We assume the reason was to produce a son that could fight The Others, and thus something more important than his life. R felt it was his duty, and had little choice in the matter. Elia was no longer capable of bearing children, her last child birth almost killed her, and if the "dragon needed three heads" then R would need more children. R was acting selflessly in the interest of the Realm, and paid the ultimate price for it.

Hope this gives you some background, and let me know what questions you have!

P.S. Rhaegar was the one who knighted Ser Gregor Clegane, aka The Mountain, who later went on to murder his wife and children!
 
Not as big a question as who constitutes the 3 headed dragon (has to be some other Targaryan, right?), but I feel like there's something significant left to play out with the Hound being burnt/scared of fire.
 
Great stuff.. thanks everyone for clearing all it up. I just can't wait for the war between the living and the dead. Probably still a ways off as the iron throne is still very unsettled .Man Cerise is something .. Holy Moly. I did not forsee the kid jumping . Jon is the real deal. I hope the mountain redeems himself. I love that Ayra cut that old goat's neck from the red wedding after feeding his kids to him. Lol..
 
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Great stuff.. thanks everyone for clearing all it up. I just can't wait for the war between the living and the dead. Probably still a ways off as the iron throne is still very unsettled .Man Cerise is something .. Holy Moly. I did not forsee the kid jumping . Jon is the real deal. I hope the mountain redeems himself. I love that Ayra cut that old goat's neck from the red wedding after feeding his kids to him. Lol..

the show needs a real villain to thrive, whether it's joffrey, ramsey, now it's cersei. they commit the most heinous crimes to the point where they don't have an affect on you, like Ramsey feeding his baby half brother to his dogs, you just kind of shrug your shoulders. Cersei just upped her game, so she's the new one that everyone loves to hate. They'll let it play out and finally she'll get killed and the fans will get what they want.
 
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Not as big a question as who constitutes the 3 headed dragon (has to be some other Targaryan, right?), but I feel like there's something significant left to play out with the Hound being burnt/scared of fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVhKOxmJCw

Some problems with these ideas.

When Aerys died, the throne passed to Rhaegar. But after Rhaegar dies it passes to Rhaegars brother, Visarys, because Rhaegar had no legitimate living offspring.

Also Jon was not Rhagars first born son, and could not be legitimate because Rhaegar was already married to Elaria Martell. His children were killed by Ser Armory Lorch and Ser Gregor Clegain (The Mountain that rides) and placed at King Roberts feet by Tywin Lannister to curry favor.

The big picture people are missing about Jon Snow is he really is Azor Azhai. The product of Ice and Fire (Stark = Ice, Targarayn = fire)

I believe eventually Jon will marry Danyarys and kill her to defeat the Night King by reforging Lightbringer.

I agree with this. I think the King's Landing mess gets cleaned up quickly next season. Cersei gets killed by Jaime. Daenerys lands on Westeros with little opposition that she can make quick work of. Jon and Sansa go to the crypt to bury Rickon and stumble upon Rhaegar's Harp in Lyanna's tomb which is a confirmation of Jon's parentage if Bran doesn't convince them. Also in play is Howland Reed filling in Jon and the others about Jon's true parentage. Jon and Dany marry eventually. Show focuses on war between Westeros and the White Walkers. Tyrion, Dany, and Jon fuck shit up on the dragons. Sacrifice happens and Longclaw becomes Lightbringer.
 
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Good video. I like that the guy makes the entire argument, and then presents a great argument as to why it's all wrong.

If you enjoyed that video, you should check out the others on that channel. The channel recently started doing episode recaps for season 6 which are great because they explain all the events and what the future implications are going forward. I've been following the channel for about 2 years now and, in my opinion, they're the best Game of Thrones YouTube channel.
 
Good video. I like that the guy makes the entire argument, and then presents a great argument as to why it's all wrong.

I know right I was totally buying in and he yanked it all back lol...
 
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