turok said:

Yeah, JV and to a much lesser degree, Maybin winning rings is bittersweet for Tigers fans, when their 5 postseason teams over the past 11 seasons failed fairly miserably.

The fact that the Tigers are now about as far away as an MLB franchise can get from fielding a contender, just makes it sting even more...sigh.

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I don't think it's failed miserably. Getting to two WS and winning a bunch of divisions is not failing miserably.

turok said:

Yeah, JV and to a much lesser degree, Maybin winning rings is bittersweet for Tigers fans, when their 5 postseason teams over the past 11 seasons failed fairly miserably.

The fact that the Tigers are now about as far away as an MLB franchise can get from fielding a contender, just makes it sting even more...sigh.

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Yup. Forgot AJ Hinch was a ex Tiger also.. man I'm so pissed the tigers failed to win the ws recently.

With that marriage proposal by Correa i am putting in a movie.

turok said:

Will Springer be WS MVP?

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Would be the biggest robbery ever if he wasn't.

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/...f-century-astros-win-first-world-series-title
Houston Strongest! After more than a half century, Astros win first World Series title.
espn

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2017/11/astros_beat_dodgers_in_game_7.html#incart_river_index
Astros beat Dodgers in Game 7 to win 1st World Series.
Mlive

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/m...los-angeles-dodgers-houston-astros/823911001/
2017 World Series: Justin Verlander, Astros win Game 7, first title.
Freep

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...-win-game-first-world-series-crown/107255816/
Verlander, Astros win first World Series.
Detnews

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/260380704/astros-beat-dodgers-to-win-first-world-series/
Houston is title town after Game 7 win in LA.
MLB.com

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2017/1...stros-world-series-champions-justin-verlander
Justin Verlander is a World Series champion!
The Astros win!
BYBTB

Mitchrapp said:

I don't think it's failed miserably. Getting to two WS and winning a bunch of divisions is not failing miserably.

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Eliminated 1-4 '06, 2-4 '11, 0-4 '12, 2-4 '13, and 0-3 '14 is not anywhere close to winning a WS championship. The Royals went 3-4 '14 and 4-1 '15 winning one WS in 2 consecutive attempts. The Red Sox went from worst in the ALED '12 to WS champs in '13. The Indians were up 3-1 vs the Cubs in last year's WS. All won or were much closer than Tigers ever got.

turok said:

Eliminated 1-4 '06, 2-4 '11, 0-4 '12, 2-4 '13, and 0-3 '14 is not anywhere close to winning a WS championship. The Royals went 3-4 '14 and 4-1 '14 winning one WS in 2 consecutive attempts. The Red Sox went from worst in the ALED '12 to WS champs in '13. The Indians were up 3-1 vs the Cubs in last year's WS. All won or were much closer than Tigers ever got.

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But they got there.. Some teams haven't got to a ws let alone two in the past 11 years. Frustrating results in the ws but it doesn't take away the joy of 2006 regular season..

Mitchrapp said:

But they got there.. Some teams haven't got to a ws let alone two in the past 11 years. Frustrating results in the ws but it doesn't take away the joy of 2006 regular season..

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Can't post for anyone else, but I would very gladly trade just ONE WS championship, for all 5 of their past postseason appearances. Their '06 season was completely unexpected. but after leading the division for most of the season, they lost it to the Twins on the very last day.

As like other Tigers' fans, I endured many years of not being competitive. So, I am very, very grateful there was a competitive team in a 10-year span.

Now, here is where the frustration comes. The team(s) were built on starting pitching. They lacked defense, base running and an offense that could take a freaking walk or get a timely hit. The offense had a tendency to score early, when they did and that is it. The offense rarely ever came on after the 6th inning, if ever.

Final Series Run Totals

2006 (WS) = 11 to 22 (5 games = 2.2 R/G Offense, 5.1 R/G Season)
2011 = 25 to 39 (6 games = 4.2 R/G Offense, 4.9 R/G Season)
2012 (WS) = 6 to 16 (4 games = 1.5 R/G Offense, 4.5 R/G Season)
2013 = 18 to 19 (6 games = 3.0 R/G Offense, 4.9 R/G Season)
2014 = 10 to 21 (3 games = 3.3 R/G Offense. 4.7 R/G Season)

In 2006, 2 of the 5 games were decided by 4 runs or more (against DET). DET had a lead in 4 of the 5 games.

In 2011, 3 of the 6 games were decided by 4 runs or more (against DET). DET had a lead in 5 of the 6 games.

In 2012, 1 of the 4 games were decided by 4 runs or more (against DET). DET lead in the final game only and lost in extra innings.

In 2013, 1 of the 6 games were decided by 4 runs or more (in favor of DET). DET had a lead in 4 of the 6 games.

In 2014, 1 of the 3 games were decided by 4 runs or more (against DET). DET had a lead 1 of the 3 games.

15 of the 24 deciding series playoff games, DET lead. They only won 5. That is frustration. I do not expect they would have won every game. Even half would have been OK. And if they would have won half, then they just might have won something more.

Innings 7-9 in Final Series

2006 = 2 - 8 (4 games, 1.5 R/G offense after 6)
2011 = 4 - 8 (6 games, 1.5 R/G offense after 6)
2012 = 2 - 4 (4 games, 1.5 R/G offense after 6)
2013 = 1 - 12 (6 games, 0.5 R/G offense after 6)
2014 = 2 - 14 (3 games, 2.0 R/G offense after 6)

This is analytics. To see this and not having it resolved is frustrating. And it was the same style of offense and/or late inning pitching in 2015, 2016 and 2017. But, the Tigers probably never even saw this. Most fans didn't necessary know the numbers, but once seen, they are probably going "ah ha".

Having one or two free swingers in your lineup probably isn't a big deal. When the vast majority are free swingers, it is a recipe for failure. Hitters, even the best, go into slumps. Patient hitters who talk walks, still draw walks regardless of if they are not hitting and they are still getting on base.

Now that JV won his WS can we have him back?

turok said:

Can't post for anyone else, but I would very gladly trade just ONE WS championship, for all 5 of their past postseason appearances. Their '06 season was completely unexpected. but after leading the division for most of the season, they lost it to the Twins on the very last day.

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Would you trade it for what Houston went through? They would have been unbearable to watch for several years.. Or Miami, win a WS sell off everything, another WS and then sell off everything.. WS are nice but it's not everything.

Mitchrapp said:

Would you trade it for what Houston went through? They would have been unbearable to watch for several years.. Or Miami, win a WS sell off everything, another WS and then sell off everything.. WS are nice but it's not everything.

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It was 6 seasons from the time HOU last made the playoffs (6 of 9 seasons) before they started losing 100 games or more. There was a lot of organization ineptitude in between. This coming year will be 4 seasons for DET and they might just be on a run of losing 100 games or more. What is the difference?

Rebbiv said:

It was 6 seasons from the time HOU last made the playoffs (6 of 9 seasons) before they started losing 100 games or more. There was a lot of organization ineptitude in between. This coming year will be 4 seasons for DET and they might just be on a run of losing 100 games or more. What is the difference?

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How you get 4? And your definition of ineptitude is a bit different than mine. They won 86 games last year. If no playoffs is ineptitude than all 30 teams have experience that in recent history. I'm glad I don't have the same rules when I watch the Tigers. You must not have much fun watching them.

Mitchrapp said:

Would you trade it for what Houston went through? They would have been unbearable to watch for several years.. Or Miami, win a WS sell off everything, another WS and then sell off everything.. WS are nice but it's not everything.

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Nope...would much rather they had been like the Cards, Red Sox, Giants, or Yankees, post 20th century.

This b/c I can point out the best case scenarios to your worst, and there is the nagging little factoid that neither happened. Except that a repeat of the '03 season is much more likely in '18, and/or '19, and/or maybe '20, than '06. The Tigers are now just like the post-'03 selloff Marlins, but w/o the jewelry and trophy to show for it.

In the MLB trifecta of postseason scenanios, the Tigers showed twice and placed twice out of 5 races. '14 ALDS='09 Game 163. In the 4H of state fairs, they won two yellow and two red ribbons, but no "blues".

Ask any MLB player if their goal is to win two pennants in 10 years or a WS. Hell...write a fan letter or tweet to JV and ask HIM.

Mitchrapp said:

How you get 4? And your definition of ineptitude is a bit different than mine. They won 86 games last year. If no playoffs is ineptitude than all 30 teams have experience that in recent history. I'm glad I don't have the same rules when I watch the Tigers. You must not have much fun watching them.

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DET was last in the playoffs in 2014. 2015 (1), 2016 (2), 2017 (3) and 2018 (4, upcoming year).

HOU last was in the playoffs in 2005, but won 86 games in 2008. Average age of batter were 31.1 and pitchers were 30.9 that year. They were old, with too many high priced players. They dissolved themselves of those high-priced veterans and went lean, but that wasn't until after 2010

I already stated I am extremely grateful for a DET Tiger team having recent history of winning. What I am refuting is your assertion that somehow HOU did something that DET isn't about to do. If going 6-24 over the last 30 games isn't "tanking", then I don't know what the definition is. I doubt they win more than 62 games in 2018.

It isn't about no being a fan, it is about being realistic. We had the discussion before the season about their prospects in 2017. I had made the comment that they had to have too many things to go right for them to compete. I made that statement not to gloat, but to point out I did not have the expectations as others. But, the Tigers have not made strides in my opinion to get back to being competitive. They have done things, but most are probably just hollow gestures.

Mitchrapp said:

Now that JV won his WS can we have him back?

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Why would JV want to pass up his chances to further cement his legacy as one of the best MLB SPs of the 21st century?

He has had and will have one of the best defenses in baseball playing behind and in front of him, and unlike having remained a Tiger, he stands a much better chance of again becoming a 20+ game winner @ least once, and perhaps winning another ring or even two before he hangs it up, given playing for one of the best-run organizations in baseball

https://detroitsportsnation.com/det...tigers-fans-following-world-series-win/97538/
World Series Champion Justin Verlander has message for his fans in Detroit.
DSN

https://www.foxsports.com/mlb/video...&utm_source=top_videos&utm_content=highlights
Webvideo Justin Verlander joined the MLB on FOX crew to talk about his journey with the Houston Astros ending with a World Series win. 6 minutes.

I rooted hard for Verlander to win his first WS ring, but after this offseason, he is "justin" opposing SP, who I want to lose vs the Tigers when/if he pitches agaist them next season. But given the mostly AAAA lineup(s) that he could face, he might K 15-20 instead. I never rooted as hard for Jack Morris, post(season) Tigers, b/c 1) he won a ring as a Tiger, and 2) he left via FA, not by last-seconds deadline trade.

biggunsbob said:

He is pitching great don't over think and keep him in in my opinion.

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Great call, Bob.

JV said the same thing in the Houston bullpen....."let [Charlie] ride, he's pitching great."

SI predicted this Astros title in 2014 after losing over 100 games three years in a row and also predicted Springer winning mvp. I think Houston is run like we would want the Tigers run. A heavy dose of baseball mathematics with some old school sprinkled in occasionally. Just looking last night at how Houston whet from one of the most in hitters striking out to one of the hardest teams to strikeout out is amazing.

BTW the 2014 SI Astro magazine is selling for over 200+ now lol..

https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/10/24/houston-astros-sports-illustrated-world-series-prediction

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...strated-cover-predicting-houston-astros-title