Go Back   DetroitSportsForum > Off topic > Diggler's Junk > Politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-26-2017, 02:30 PM   #21
turok   turok is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,921
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinselwolverine View Post
I don't know.

How many angels can dance on the point of a sewing needle?

If the people aren't tested, how are we gonna know how many there are?

Also, I don't know that not being tested for DUI has anything to do with socio-economic status.

If you're rich and you don't get pulled over when you're drunk or under the influence, you're not gonna go to jail.

If you're poor, and you don't get pulled over when you're drunk or under the influence, you're also not gonna go to jail.

There's nothing in your post that refutes the irrefutable facts I posted that you're responding to, because they're irrefutable.

That's because they're facts.
There are millions who are on anxiety and pain relieving opioid drugs, and likewise millions who have knowingly drunk more than ounce of alcohol per hour after sporting events like the "19th hole", then driven, which is illegal, whether caught or not. I made no mention of socioeconomic status.
__________________




Login or Register to Remove Ads

Last edited by turok; 10-26-2017 at 02:32 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 02:38 PM   #22
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is offline
Moderator
 
tinselwolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by turok View Post
There are millions who are on anxiety and pain relieving opioid drugs, and likewise millions who have knowingly drunk more than ounce of alcohol per hour after sporting events like the "19th hole", then driven, which is illegal, whether caught or not. I made no mention of socioeconomic status.
I guess I'm not getting your point, and I'm certainly missing how anything about how making the choice to drive under the influence or not drive under the influence correlates to whether prisons are run publicly or privately.
__________________
Go Blue!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 02:48 PM   #23
turok   turok is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,921
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinselwolverine View Post
I guess I'm not getting your point, and I'm certainly missing how anything about how making the choice to drive under the influence or not drive under the influence correlates to whether prisons are run publicly or privately.

So if I reply to the part of a post that does not involve what was in the OP, then I'm not supposed to be going off topic? Who made that rule here?
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 02:55 PM   #24
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is offline
Moderator
 
tinselwolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulo Blue View Post
We should try to keep profits out of the business of incarceration with the same fervor we try to inject free markets into most other things. Too much drive to increase the number of "customers" to remain ethical.
I don't know who would be driven to increase the number of "customers" that would participate in the actual process leading to incarceration. The explanation of this should be apparent below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulo Blue View Post
Our incarceration rates are high compared to other places of similar wealth. I don't believe Americans are inherently more deserving of it.
I don't know how this has anything to do with whether prisons are run privately or otherwise.

A person is suspected of a crime for whatever reason. The publicly employed police do some investigation, and finding probably cause, make an arrest.

Further investigation is going to lead to a determination to pursue charges in conjunction with the publicly employed members of the DA's office, or to drop the charges based on insufficient evidence.

The DA will then do a similar evaluation, and based on the likelihood of conviction, bring a criminal case, or drop the charges.

The defendant will either hire council of be appointed council by the court if a prosecution is pursued.

The defendant will, on advice of council, either make a plea deal, or stand trial.

If the case goes to trial, a jury of citizen/civilian peers will find either guilty or not guilty.

If a plea deal is made or if a conviction of guilty is determined by a jury, a judge - also a public employee - will make a sentence.

If the sentence is a period of incarceration, and there will at some point be a parole eligibility, a parole board - also members of the public - will be the ones make a determination to award parole or not.

Nothing involving the determination to incarcerate nor the period of incarceration has anything to do with whether the incarceration facilities are managed privately or not.
__________________
Go Blue!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 02:59 PM   #25
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is offline
Moderator
 
tinselwolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by turok View Post
So if I reply to the part of a post that does not involve what was in the OP, then I'm not supposed to be going off topic? Who made that rule here?
I don't know if what I've emboldened is actually what you meant to post, but I also don't understand the point you're trying to make in this reply either.
__________________
Go Blue!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 03:08 PM   #26
turok   turok is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,921
If someone is being arrested, arraigned, tried, convicted, and sentenced by "the people" then they should also be incarcerated by "the people" and not a for-profit private entity. Bad enough that the best defense available is private and comes with a very high price tag.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 03:13 PM   #27
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is offline
Moderator
 
tinselwolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by turok View Post
If someone is being arrested, arraigned, tried, convicted, and sentenced by "the people" then they should also be incarcerated by "the people" and not a for-profit private entity. Bad enough that the best defense available is private and comes with a very high price tag.
That's fair and reasonable.

I'm pretty sure there are no federal prisons that are run privately - I could be wrong - and I highly doubt that California, where I have, has private for profit prisons.
__________________
Go Blue!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 04:50 PM   #28
Gulo Blue   Gulo Blue is offline
Senior Member
 
Gulo Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 7,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinselwolverine View Post
I don't know who would be driven to increase the number of "customers" that would participate in the actual process leading to incarceration. The explanation of this should be apparent below.
It's usually not this direct. Prisons hire lobbyists, lobbyists influence politicians. Politicians influence how easy it is to get sent to prison.

All that is tough to prove in a message board post. But here's a nice and easy case to show the motive exists:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html
Quote:
The answers became a bit clearer on Thursday as the judge, Mark A. Ciavarella Jr., and a colleague, Michael T. Conahan, appeared in federal court in Scranton, Pa., to plead guilty to wire fraud and income tax fraud for taking more than $2.6 million in kickbacks to send teenagers to two privately run youth detention centers run by PA Child Care and a sister company, Western PA Child Care.
__________________
Don't blame me; I voted for Kodos.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 04:54 PM   #29
Gulo Blue   Gulo Blue is offline
Senior Member
 
Gulo Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 7,586
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...talking-about/

Quote:
The two largest for-profit prison companies in the United States – GEO and Corrections Corporation of America – and their associates have funneled more than $10 million to candidates since 1989 and have spent nearly $25 million on lobbying efforts. Meanwhile, these private companies have seen their revenue and market share soar. They now rake in a combined $3.3 billion in annual revenue and the private federal prison population more than doubled between 2000 and 2010, according to a report by the Justice Policy Institute.
__________________
Don't blame me; I voted for Kodos.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 07:29 PM   #30
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is offline
Moderator
 
tinselwolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulo Blue View Post
It's usually not this direct. Prisons hire lobbyists, lobbyists influence politicians. Politicians influence how easy it is to get sent to prison.

All that is tough to prove in a message board post. But here's a nice and easy case to show the motive exists:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html
Anyway, turok's philosophical point in post #26 convinced me on something I theretofore hadn't had much of an opinion.

The entirety of law enforcement, criminal justice and corrections should all be run through the people.
__________________
Go Blue!
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Top      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.