Go Back   DetroitSportsForum > Off topic > Diggler's Junk > Politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-09-2017, 10:48 AM   #31
michchamp   michchamp is offline
Senior Member
 
michchamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: burning down the South
Posts: 22,706
more private prison awfulness, this time from Oklahoma.

this should be under the politics tab. it was all political decisions that enabled the switch to and growth of private prisons. they wouldn't exist otherwise.

it's just taxpayer dollars being shoveled to a handful of corporations, instead of to other things, like schools, roads, bridges, fire trucks, mental health clinics, etc.

instead of providing working class people with good public education, career opportunities, and mental health care if they need it, we criminalize them and send them to for-profit prisons, where they can work essentially as slave labor... all this in 21st Century America. Our wonderful Shining beacon of democracy and freedom.
__________________
"...Killer Mike has never killed anybody. It's just, he's a killer rapper."
- Bernie Sanders



Login or Register to Remove Ads
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 02:46 PM   #32
tomdalton22   tomdalton22 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 14,882
I wonder how valid this story / lawsuit is. It says that there are 1163 people booked into jail for failure to pay. Is that the only thing they are in jail for? The article says there are 45,000 open failure to pay warrants. Sounds like they are having a hard time getting "criminals" to pay their court costs.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 03:09 PM   #33
turok   turok is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 7,918
So people who commit crimes who can afford to pay the fees and fines, either through their own means, or from someone else, are more deserving to go free than someone who cannot.

Seems totally fair and legit.
__________________


Last edited by turok; 11-09-2017 at 03:12 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 03:24 PM   #34
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is online now
Moderator
 
tinselwolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19,751
Quote:
Originally Posted by michchamp View Post
more private prison awfulness, this time from Oklahoma.

it's just taxpayer dollars being shoveled to a handful of corporations, instead of to other things, like schools, roads, bridges, fire trucks, mental health clinics, etc.

Turok convinced me with a simple philosophical point that we should do away with for profit prisons - nothing in the law enforcement and conviction and sentencing chain is for profit - it's all done by the people - imperfectly of course, but what is perfect? - and incarceration and rehabilitation should also be done by the people.

Before that I was pretty much neutral.

I researched the history of for profit prisons; Wikipedia, which, while also not perfect, is usually a pretty good source, equates the expansion of the private prison system with the war on drugs.

I also think that the war on drugs is a complete waste.

As a libertarian, I used to believe that if people wanted to do drugs, free people should be free to make that choice. My feelings have kind of moderated on that, and I don't claim to know the solution, but I don't believe long periods of incarceration simply for drug possession in small amounts is a solution.

That said, people don't go to prison because private companies are making money from it.

People go to prison because they've been found guilty of crimes through our criminal justice process.

Also I drive on roads, I pass schools and mental health clinics, I drive over bridges and I see and hear fire trucks every day - I don't know about the rest of Texas, but when I used to be in Dallas for family and business interests, it was the same thing.

I guess the best thing about doing away with private prisons and having them run by the state and federal governments instead would that they would stop costing the tax payers any dollars.

They would just magically manifest and operate themselves at no cost to the public whatsoever.
__________________
Go Blue!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 03:34 PM   #35
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is online now
Moderator
 
tinselwolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19,751
Quote:
Originally Posted by michchamp View Post
more private prison awfulness, this time from Oklahoma.

this should be under the politics tab. it was all political decisions that enabled the switch to and growth of private prisons. they wouldn't exist otherwise.
I moved it.

My guess thought he was starting the thread in the politics board, which is a sub forum of the Diggler's Junk board.
__________________
Go Blue!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 03:37 PM   #36
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is online now
Moderator
 
tinselwolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19,751
Quote:
Originally Posted by turok View Post
So people who commit crimes who can afford to pay the fees and fines, either through their own means, or from someone else, are more deserving to go free than someone who cannot.

Seems totally fair and legit.
I question the veracity of stuff from The Daily Beast, much the same way I would with stuff say from Breitbart.

I tried to find out stuff about this Ira Wilkins and what he was convicted of in the first place, but so far I haven't found anything.

I've never heard of a person who, upon completion of their sentence, was disallowed to be released because of court costs - it seems far fetched to me.
__________________
Go Blue!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 03:38 PM   #37
michchamp   michchamp is offline
Senior Member
 
michchamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: burning down the South
Posts: 22,706
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdalton22 View Post
I wonder how valid this story / lawsuit is. It says that there are 1163 people booked into jail for failure to pay. Is that the only thing they are in jail for? The article says there are 45,000 open failure to pay warrants. Sounds like they are having a hard time getting "criminals" to pay their court costs.
the company getting sued was founded fairly recently, so it could be that the 45k figure could be existing unpaid fines from over the years.

company was founded by a disbarred lawyer who went to prison for tax fraud... and this is the guy Oklahoma sheriffs are doing business with here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turok View Post
So people who commit crimes who can afford to pay the fees and fines, either through their own means, or from someone else, are more deserving to go free than someone who cannot.

Seems totally fair and legit.
like I said, the only real crime is being poor!
__________________
"...Killer Mike has never killed anybody. It's just, he's a killer rapper."
- Bernie Sanders
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 03:52 PM   #38
michchamp   michchamp is offline
Senior Member
 
michchamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: burning down the South
Posts: 22,706
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinselwolverine View Post
...

I also think that the war on drugs is a complete waste.

As a libertarian, I used to believe that if people wanted to do drugs, free people should be free to make that choice. My feelings have kind of moderated on that, and I don't claim to know the solution, but I don't believe long periods of incarceration simply for drug possession in small amounts is a solution.
you can de-criminalize drugs, but still hold people accountable who do irresponsible things because of drugs. they can treat drug addiction as it should be: an illness, not a crime. courts can order addicts to attend clinics to kick their addiction, and get well.

and people out of control could still be arrested so they don't harm themselves or others; it would be no different than throwing a drunk in the drunk tank to sober up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinselwolverine View Post
That said, people don't go to prison because private companies are making money from it.

People go to prison because they've been found guilty of crimes through our criminal justice process.

...
???... but the private prison industry comes up with creative new ways to "grow" their business (i.e. put MORE people in their jails for longer terms). It then lobbies politicians to that end. (like opposing marijuana decriminalization) Their latest initiative is to push to make penalties for violating immigration laws more severe, so those poor people will be incarcerated, instead of merely deported. Link.
__________________
"...Killer Mike has never killed anybody. It's just, he's a killer rapper."
- Bernie Sanders
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 04:10 PM   #39
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is online now
Moderator
 
tinselwolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19,751
Quote:
Originally Posted by michchamp View Post
you can de-criminalize drugs, but still hold people accountable who do irresponsible things because of drugs. they can treat drug addiction as it should be: an illness, not a crime. courts can order addicts to attend clinics to kick their addiction, and get well.

and people out of control could still be arrested so they don't harm themselves or others; it would be no different than throwing a drunk in the drunk tank to sober up.
This makes sense to me. I hear Drew Pinsky on the radio talking about this all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michchamp View Post
???... but the private prison industry comes up with creative new ways to "grow" their business (i.e. put MORE people in their jails for longer terms). It then lobbies politicians to that end. (like opposing marijuana decriminalization) Their latest initiative is to push to make penalties for violating immigration laws more severe, so those poor people will be incarcerated, instead of merely deported. Link.
I already said, Turok convinced me with a simple philosophical point that private for profit prisons are contradictory to our nation's fundamental tenets of liberty and justice.

I'm absolutely on board that they should be done away with.
__________________
Go Blue!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 04:38 PM   #40
michchamp   michchamp is offline
Senior Member
 
michchamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: burning down the South
Posts: 22,706
ok good. here's your pitchfork and torch.
__________________
"...Killer Mike has never killed anybody. It's just, he's a killer rapper."
- Bernie Sanders
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Top      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.