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Old 10-30-2017, 01:35 PM   #11
turok   turok is offline
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Originally Posted by Gulo Blue View Post
I don't think it's the same. Anonymous posters elsewhere claim it's just people working together to commit tax fraud.

edit: here's an article that explains that charge:
http://www.businessinsider.com/consp...nafort-2017-10

"If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

Yet MI residents can receive prison sentences of up to 7 years for del/mfg/conspiracy of <50 grams of controlled substances, and have all of their assets seized. 5 years max and/or a "fine" for tax fraud involving hundreds of thousands or millions seems very light/tame in comparison.
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:04 PM   #12
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John Oliver keeps calling the Russian collusion "Stupid Watergate", but I think he's forgetting that there are smart people in Russia. It's possible that Trump was willing and eager to make stupid mistakes, but the Russians knew when to back off and not cross legal lines. If they opened a door to Trump getting impeached, they probably tried to do it in a way where it wouldn't happen until they revealed (through back channels) some key piece of evidence..
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:08 PM   #13
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:58 PM   #14
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https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/92...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

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Daniel Dale‏Verified account @ddale8

Papadopoulos is described as "proactive cooperator." Former prosecutor tells me that sometimes means "wore a wire."
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:25 PM   #15
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Maybe the US isn't "technically" @ war with Russia and China, but it sure appears that we are technologically. Perhaps the official definition of committing treason, needs to be updated to reflect that fact here in the 21st century.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:29 PM   #16
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treason is somewhat unique among criminal behavior (if you want to call it that) because it's spefically defined in the Constitution:
SECTION 3. Clause 1. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open court.
reason being (link): ...a product of the awareness of the Framers of the “numerous and dangerous excrescences” which had disfigured the English law of treason and was therefore intended to put it beyond the power of Congress to “extend the crime and punishment of treason.”1331 The debate in the Convention, remarks in the ratifying conventions, and contemporaneous public comment make clear that a restrictive concept of the crime was imposed and that ordinary partisan divisions within political society were not to be escalated by the stronger into capital charges of treason...
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:39 PM   #17
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I haven't read the indictment yet, but all along it seems like the US media is willing to stretch just who is and is not an agent of the Russian government.

just about any given Russian slob could be "tied to Putin" in the eyes of the media.

I think we would be surprised by Manafort being described as an "American agent" when he was lobbying around the world. it's "different when we do it" because we're America!

Manafort's and Stone's lobbying firm has been sleazy as shit for decades, and helped all manner of foreign scumbags get elected in their own countries; I have a hard time believing this is the first time they've stepped afoul of the law. Maybe this is payback from the DC-establishment for helping to foist Trump on us? They finally got in trouble, only because this time, they shat where they eat?

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Old 10-30-2017, 06:53 PM   #18
michchamp   michchamp is offline
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also, FWIW on treason, I take the definition in the Constitution to mean that a war has to actually be declared in order for it to be at play.

we haven't officially been at war with anyone since 1945.
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by michchamp View Post
also, FWIW on treason, I take the definition in the Constitution to mean that a war has to actually be declared in order for it to be at play.

we haven't officially been at war with anyone since 1945.
We didn't have electricity, steam/gas/nuclear-powered engines, refrigeration, or semi-autos with bullets when the Constitution was written either, but I think that the ether is now absolutely vital to our communications, commerce, transportation, security, and ultimately our survival as a united nation. We are under attack virtually 24/7/365. Time to get with the program, and have Congress acknowledge and declare that we are at eWar with extremely dangerous adversaries who are using the technology that our military invented (ARPANET) against US.
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Old 10-31-2017, 05:07 PM   #20
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The new spin on Papadopoulos.

"He was the coffee boy," Caputo said. "You might have called him a foreign policy analyst, but if he was going to wear a wire, all we would have known now is whether he prefers a caramel macchiato over a regular American coffee in conversations with his barista."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/31/politi...ntv/index.html
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