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Worse QB...

Who sucked more?

  • Maxwell

    Votes: 6 66.7%
  • O'Connor

    Votes: 3 33.3%

  • Total voters
    9

LuciousGameWinner

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
2,973
So I'm watching the Buffalo Wild Wings game from a few years ago and all I can think about is who was the worse QB, Maxwell or O'Connor. Both are hot garbage, it is a really tough choice for me. I think I would have to go with O'Connor by a hair.
 
Brutal question here, it might be me but it seems like Maxwells wideouts dropped more passes than TOCs last year. I go with OConnor.
 
now that just about everyone who posts here has weighed in, I guess the O'Connors have it, 3-2!
 
O'connor at least got us the OSU win. Maxwell was worse, not one positive. I evened it up to 3-3.
 
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Maxwell. I don't remember him ever making a play. Without that d, I don't think we win 2 games that year.
 
just like that, the tide shifts to mawell. I would challenge the assertion that he got us the OSU win (credit the O and D lines, and the hurricane for that one) but would have to concede that he gets credit for not losing the game. Maxwell doesn't have any big "not losses"

its an interesting argument but not one with a clear winner - it's kinda like asking "would you rather get kicked in the balls or punched in the balls?"
 
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just like that, the tide shifts to mawell. I would challenge the assertion that he got us the OSU win (credit the O and D lines, and the hurricane for that one) but would have to concede that he gets credit for not losing the game. Maxwell doesn't have any big "not losses"

its an interesting argument but not one with a clear winner - it's kinda like asking "would you rather get kicked in the balls or punched in the balls?"

To Maxwells credit though we never lost to 2 absolutely mediocre to awful teams like Indiana or Illinois (although TOC was actually pretty decent that Illinois game if I recall). All of our losses under Maxwell were against decent teams (ND who went on to play in the NC, OSU who went undefeated, northwestern who won 10 games, Nebraska who was above average, Michigan was average) aside the loss to Iowa which was disgusting.

That whole season pisses me off thinking about it still. What a waste of a defense. Every home loss was heartbreaking and we had a 2-5 home record if I recall with the lone wins being Boise state in an ugly game and a laughably pathetic game against eastern.
 
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I guess the way to judge IMO would be to imagine Maxwell on last years team or TOC on the 2012 team. Given that I'd say that Maxwell was worse, I could imagine the 2012 winning more games with TOC.

Adj QBR can be as much of a team stat that individual but Maxwell in 2012 was 45.6 while TOC was 64.3.


Maxwell was likely the main reason that we were bad in 2012, the rest of the pieces were there as we saw in 2013. TOC was one of many reasons we were bad but far from the only one, being dead last in the big ten in sacks by an absolute mile being #1.
 
Maxwell had the worst touch and timing of any QB I have ever seen. Sure his receivers dropped it, but usually because Maxwell didn't hit them on time or threw a fastball on a 5 yard pattern.
 
To Maxwells credit though we never lost to 2 absolutely mediocre to awful teams like Indiana or Illinois (although TOC was actually pretty decent that Illinois game if I recall). All of our losses under Maxwell were against decent teams (ND who went on to play in the NC, OSU who went undefeated, northwestern who won 10 games, Nebraska who was above average, Michigan was average) aside the loss to Iowa which was disgusting.

That whole season pisses me off thinking about it still. What a waste of a defense. Every home loss was heartbreaking and we had a 2-5 home record if I recall with the lone wins being Boise state in an ugly game and a laughably pathetic game against eastern.

preaching to the choir here - I voted for TOC as the worse QB. Not only did Maxwell not lose to 2 horse shit teams, he almost beat NW!!!! Something TOC can't say.

The only redeeming factor of that season was beating TCU in BW3 Bowl - I can't stand Gary Patterson.
 
To Maxwells credit though we never lost to 2 absolutely mediocre to awful teams like Indiana or Illinois (although TOC was actually pretty decent that Illinois game if I recall). All of our losses under Maxwell were against decent teams (ND who went on to play in the NC, OSU who went undefeated, northwestern who won 10 games, Nebraska who was above average, Michigan was average) aside the loss to Iowa which was disgusting.

That whole season pisses me off thinking about it still. What a waste of a defense. Every home loss was heartbreaking and we had a 2-5 home record if I recall with the lone wins being Boise state in an ugly game and a laughably pathetic game against eastern.

Maxwell had all of the pieces around him, a defense ranked 4th nationally in yardage allowed and a future record setting NFL running back. If that team had a decent to good QB they could have contended for a national title.
 
I don't think it's fair to say he had "all the pieces around him." The receiving corps was very young - Burbridge and Kings were freshman and Kings didn't really produce. Lippett was only a sophomore and was still developing, same with Mumphrey. Arnett hardly saw the field. Fowler, a junior was the only upperclassman. And that future record setting NFL running back was held under 100 yards (really under 80 yards) by 5 teams that year. Sure he put up sick numbers against shit teams like Minnie, BYU and EMU and had a great game against Iowa (2-6) and Nebraska (7-1 with a very soft schedule, getting their asses kicked by the only good team they played) - I'm not saying he wasn't good. He was definitely one of if not the best back in the B1G.

The defense was very good (despite Johnny Adams' inability to cover anyone) and again, Bell was a top B1G back but Maxwell was not the only weakness on that team. The offense was very one-dimensional and the o-line was overrated as evidenced by the fact that good teams were able to stop Bell. We were 95th in total offense - that's not all on Maxwell. It's more accurate to say Bell was the only good part of our offense than Maxwell was the only weak part of that team.

You probably think I'm saying this just to disagree with you so if it makes you feel any better, on balance the 2012 team was better than 2016 but to say Maxwell had all the tools around him and he was the only problem isn't true. A reasonable case can be made for TOC being worse than Maxwell.
 
I don't think it's fair to say he had "all the pieces around him." The receiving corps was very young - Burbridge and Kings were freshman and Kings didn't really produce. Lippett was only a sophomore and was still developing, same with Mumphrey. Arnett hardly saw the field. Fowler, a junior was the only upperclassman. And that future record setting NFL running back was held under 100 yards (really under 80 yards) by 5 teams that year. Sure he put up sick numbers against shit teams like Minnie, BYU and EMU and had a great game against Iowa (2-6) and Nebraska (7-1 with a very soft schedule, getting their asses kicked by the only good team they played) - I'm not saying he wasn't good. He was definitely one of if not the best back in the B1G.

The defense was very good (despite Johnny Adams' inability to cover anyone) and again, Bell was a top B1G back but Maxwell was not the only weakness on that team. The offense was very one-dimensional and the o-line was overrated as evidenced by the fact that good teams were able to stop Bell. We were 95th in total offense - that's not all on Maxwell. It's more accurate to say Bell was the only good part of our offense than Maxwell was the only weak part of that team.

You probably think I'm saying this just to disagree with you so if it makes you feel any better, on balance the 2012 team was better than 2016 but to say Maxwell had all the tools around him and he was the only problem isn't true. A reasonable case can be made for TOC being worse than Maxwell.

Here's a crazy thought, just imagine, if having no passing game had an impact on your running game. In this alternate universe, safeties could move up in run support because your QB wasn't able to make them pay for it. In that case, it would be a lot harder for a running back to gain yardage because the QB isn't good enough to keep the defense honest. Of course that could never happen and the passing game has no impact on the run game.
 
Here's a crazy thought, just imagine, if having no passing game had an impact on your running game. In this alternate universe, safeties could move up in run support because your QB wasn't able to make them pay for it. In that case, it would be a lot harder for a running back to gain yardage because the QB isn't good enough to keep the defense honest. Of course that could never happen and the passing game has no impact on the run game.

Wow that is a crazy thought. What an amazing football mind you have. But his brings up a serious question - what exactly is your point? Where did I say the passing game has no impact on the running game? How was that different between 2012 and '16? Newsflash, it wasn't - neither team had a passing game. Also, how does this dismissive condescending post disprove anything I said about how Maxwell didn't have all the tools around him? The answer isn't it doesn't. The only advantage the maxwell team had was Bell and a solid defense. Maxwell's o-line was garbage, just like TOC's. while some of Maxwell's receivers later developed into really good players, there were no playmakers in the unit in 2012. Maybe you're just trying to change the subject and argue about something I didn't say and don't believe because you can't defend your comment about maxwell having all the tools around him, won't admit you were wrong and can't have an adult conversation. think about this post next time you accuse me of starting shit.
 
Wow that is a crazy thought. What an amazing football mind you have. But his brings up a serious question - what exactly is your point? Where did I say the passing game has no impact on the running game? How was that different between 2012 and '16? Newsflash, it wasn't - neither team had a passing game. Also, how does this dismissive condescending post disprove anything I said about how Maxwell didn't have all the tools around him? The answer isn't it doesn't. The only advantage the maxwell team had was Bell and a solid defense. Maxwell's o-line was garbage, just like TOC's. while some of Maxwell's receivers later developed into really good players, there were no playmakers in the unit in 2012. Maybe you're just trying to change the subject and argue about something I didn't say and don't believe because you can't defend your comment about maxwell having all the tools around him, won't admit you were wrong and can't have an adult conversation. think about this post next time you accuse me of starting shit.

Also figure in a NFL tight end for Maxwell though he missed 3 games. MSU could have been a big ten champion with simply average QB play.
 
Also figure in a NFL tight end for Maxwell though he missed 3 games. MSU could have been a big ten champion with simply average QB play.

no. they couldn't. the receiving corps was pretty inexperienced if not bad and the o-line was bad, as evidenced by their inability to get a record breaking NFL tailback over 100 yards (really, over 80) 5 times.

at least now you're only making a weak case for a B1G championship instead of a weak case for the national championship. your delusions are becoming less delusional so I guess thats progress. Congrats on that.
 
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no. they couldn't. the receiving corps was pretty inexperienced if not bad and the o-line was bad, as evidenced by their inability to get a record breaking NFL tailback over 100 yards (really, over 80) 5 times.

at least now you're only making a weak case for a B1G championship instead of a weak case for the national championship. your delusions are becoming less delusional so I guess thats progress. Congrats on that.

they could have been a NC contender too, the big ten champion is generally in the conversation. Nice job standing by that 100 yard number, but of course having no passing game meant that safeties would cheat against Bell. He still averaged 137 per game, led the big ten in rushing, 3rd in FBS, but since he didn't reach an arbitrary 100 yard milestone in 5 games somehow we didn't have a very good rushing attack? We had a top 5 defense, top 3 running back, NFL tight end, but somehow the receivers weren't experienced enough? I think they would have been just fine with someone different throwing them the football.
 
I understand that safeties cheated against Bell and it wasn't just the 5 teams that stuffed him under 80 yards - you're not the only football genius who posts here. Those teams were just more talented and our bad offensive line couldn't make up for that like they could against the bottom half of the B1G and the mostly horse shit non-conference teams we played (can't wait for you to point out we played NC contender (LOL) ND in 2012).

You see, it was a combination of factors - an inexperienced receiving corps, a weak offensive line and bad, but arguably not as bad as TOC quarterback. You can think the receivers would have been just fine with another QB all you want, but that doesn't make it so - more often it's the case that good receivers make a QB better (or look better) than a good QB makes receivers better. With a better offensive line to run behind, I think that top 3 running back would have done just fine against the 5 teams that held him under 80 yards.
 
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