b311j said:

Aaaaand there it is. They're not real Christians. Its not real Christian behavior.


Stupid response.

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But certainly not as stupid as the post I responded to. Let me pick a group you belong to, say Michigan grads. Then let's pick an example say Ted Kaczynski and attempt to draw some conclusions.

Now comes B311J and he says that all Michigan grads must be psychotic serial killers, because certainly I can find some who profess to love the University but also do stupid and evil things like killing people.

You wanted a straw man - there's one for ya, but I'm here to tell you it is the same damn thing.

So you can keep posting anecdotal stories, if you like, but I will give you the same answer every time.

KAWDUP said:

But certainly not as stupid as the post I responded to. Let me pick a group you belong to, say Michigan grads. Then let's pick an example say Ted Kaczynski and attempt to draw some conclusions.

Now comes B311J and he says that all Michigan grads must be psychotic serial killers, because certainly I can find some who profess to love the University but also do stupid and evil things like killing people.

You wanted a straw man - there's one for ya, but I'm here to tell you it is the same damn thing.

So you can keep posting anecdotal stories, if you like, but I will give you the same answer every time.

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Well, instead of Kaczynski, why not make the next straw man Michigan grad and Chicago 7 terrorist Tom Hayden?

Because if you keep telling the Kaczynski story as an example, it's just gonna get old.

And Hayden was married to Hanoi Jane Fonda.



Plus, MichChamp is an especial fan of Hayden, so you would get to put a double dose of whup ass on the commie libtard atheists on "Christians Behaving Badly" thread.

KAWDUP said:

But certainly not as stupid as the post I responded to. Let me pick a group you belong to, say Michigan grads. Then let's pick an example say Ted Kaczynski and attempt to draw some conclusions.

Now comes B311J and he says that all Michigan grads must be psychotic serial killers, because certainly I can find some who profess to love the University but also do stupid and evil things like killing people.

You wanted a straw man - there's one for ya, but I'm here to tell you it is the same damn thing.

So you can keep posting anecdotal stories, if you like, but I will give you the same answer every time.

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correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think b311j is saying, or has ever said, that these examples show that ALL Christians are bad. and if I'm not wrong, your analogy doesn't apply here.

and for the record, I didn't make this thread to prove "all christians are bad" either, or to claim that atheists were superior or infallible themselves. I did it to attack that fallacy of moral superiority that some (or maybe even many?) christians in this country like to believe in.

michchamp said:

correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think b311j is saying, or has ever said, that these examples show that ALL Christians are bad. and if I'm not wrong, your analogy doesn't apply here.

and for the record, I didn't make this thread to prove "all christians are bad" either, or to claim that atheists were superior or infallible themselves. I did it to attack that fallacy of moral superiority that some (or maybe even many?) christians in this country like to believe in.

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Well, I'm not sure though...

One of the most basic tenets of Christianity is supposed to be that all people behave badly; and being Christian doesn't eradicate that human impulse, and it's one of the most basic self-descriptions of people in the belief system/philosophy.

I've always viewed this as a fundamental fallacy of the theme of this thread, as sometimes entertaining as I've found this thread to follow and participate in.

Imagine walking up to group of Christians at a picnic table outside at a park, and saying "Christians behave badly..."

If I were one of them (which I wouldn't be because I'm not a Christian, but I have no animosity towards Christians either) I would say..."Really? So tell us about the weather?"

michchamp said:

correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think b311j is saying, or has ever said, that these examples show that ALL Christians are bad. and if I'm not wrong, your analogy doesn't apply here.

and for the record, I didn't make this thread to prove "all christians are bad" either, or to claim that atheists were superior or infallible themselves. I did it to attack that fallacy of moral superiority that some (or maybe even many?) christians in this country like to believe in.

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Ok using "all" is only implied and doesn't have to be what was meant. But bear with me for second. What if I created a thread and posted every article I could find where some Michigan grad has done something wrong or even evil. Substitute anything that you are passionate about for Michigan in the example I gave, and then have someone attempt to tear it down at every turn and every post.

Some questions:
1) Would you think someone like that was your friend?
2) Would you be inclined to treat that person fairly in your posts when discussing the subject? . . . or would you in typical michchamp fashion lay into them in an attempt to make them look inferior or stupid?

It's OK - I wouldn't respond if I was really butt hurt, but all of it is just to show that you have met some people who thought they were morally superior who are part of that group you happen to be railing on that day? Sounds like troll baiting to me - what does it sound like to you?

tinselwolverine said:

Well, I'm not sure though...

One of the most basic tenets of Christianity is supposed to be that all people behave badly...

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This is true, but it seems few Christians keep this tenet in mind when they're attacking Islam because of the deeds of radical Islamists, claiming natural disasters are divine retribution for gay people, or insisting on putting their symbols on public buildings, claiming atheists are immoral, or forcing the general public to pray to their god?

KAWDUP said:

Ok using "all" is only implied and doesn't have to be what was meant. But bear with me for second. What if I created a thread and posted every article I could find where some Michigan grad has done something wrong or even evil. Substitute anything that you are passionate about for Michigan in the example I gave, and then have someone attempt to tear it down at every turn and every post.

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You do know that gotime909 and Johnny2x2x have both done this, and on more than one occasion, on the Michigan board, don't you?

tinselwolverine said:

You do know that gotime909 and Johnny2x2x have both done this, and on more than one occasion, on the Michigan board, don't you?

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so? . . . and are my answers here worse or better than theirs?

Also did you miss where I said substitute anything you're passionate about?

KAWDUP said:

Ok using "all" is only implied and doesn't have to be what was meant. But bear with me for second. What if I created a thread and posted every article I could find where some Michigan grad has done something wrong or even evil. Substitute anything that you are passionate about for Michigan in the example I gave, and then have someone attempt to tear it down at every turn and every post.

Some questions:
1) Would you think someone like that was your friend?
2) Would you be inclined to treat that person fairly in your posts when discussing the subject? . . . or would you in typical michchamp fashion lay into them in an attempt to make them look inferior or stupid?

It's OK - I wouldn't respond if I was really butt hurt, but all of it is just to show that you have met some people who thought they were morally superior who are part of that group you happen to be railing on that day? Sounds like troll baiting to me - what does it sound like to you?

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that's a lot of questions... but basically let's say someone started a thread about Michigan grads behaving badly... I would laugh. that would be a funny thing to do here, and it would take balls to keep up with it and not flame out/get overly heated and resort to angry personal attacks.

to answer the numbered ???s
1) I wouldn't think that person was my friend, but then again, if they made a thread about all the great things Michigan grads do, I wouldn't necessarily think they were my friend either.
2) If their arrows hit the mark, yeah, I'd treat them fairly. Hell, I partook in zyxt's thread attacking atheists with pretty good humor.

michchamp said:

This is true, but it seems few Christians keep this tenet in mind when they're attacking Islam because of the deeds of radical Islamists, claiming natural disasters are divine retribution for gay people, or insisting on putting their symbols on public buildings, claiming atheists are immoral, or forcing the general public to pray to their god?

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I'm not a Christian and I attack the deeds radical Islamists if they support terrorism.

I attack the deeds of Christians who engage in terrorism too.

Also Berkeley students, although I don't know if I believe than Berkeley students actually have the cahonies to engage in terrorism; I think a few of them may have taken credit for shit that real terrorists did after the fact.

Now, as far as a few crazy people thinking that God imposed natural disasters on the world because of gay people, what the fuck difference does it make if a few crazy people think that?

I guess at Christmastime it gets into the news that some group or other wants a nativity scene or something somewhere that someone else doesn't want it - it's not really important shit.

Whether I'm atheist or not, I'm not too worried myself whether something thinks I'm immoral or not, just as long as they don't try to fuck with me.

The general public is not forced to pray. I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

michchamp said:

that's a lot of questions... but basically let's say someone started a thread about Michigan grads behaving badly... I would laugh. that would be a funny thing to do here, and it would take balls to keep up with it and not flame out/get overly heated and resort to angry personal attacks.

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Well that isn't the correct example for you. Think of something that would bug you if it was torn down in front of you day after day. If you say there is nothing like that, I'm going to cry BS. Why haven't you killed yourself then?

michchamp said:

to answer the numbered ???s
1) I wouldn't think that person was my friend, but then again, if they made a thread about all the great things Michigan grads do, I wouldn't necessarily think they were my friend either.

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Change to being friendly towards rather than being a friend.

michchamp said:

2) If their arrows hit the mark, yeah, I'd treat them fairly. Hell, I partook in zyxt's thread attacking atheists with pretty good humor.

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Think of it as SpartanMack doing the attacking, then answer again.

KAWDUP said:

so? . . . and are my answers here worse or better than theirs?

Also did you miss where I said substitute anything you're passionate about?

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Well the only thing I'm really very passionate about is watching pornography, but that's something that gets criticized quite a bit as it is.

For example, it would be surprising to see someone get particularly bent out of shape over a thread titled "people who watch pornography behaving badly."

KAWDUP said:

... Why haven't you killed yourself then?

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Because I have a pretty good sense of humor, maybe.

But seriously, I don't take a lot of things personally... I don't consider much sacred. I suppose if someone started attacking my wife and kids, and my family then I'd get upset. that's about it.

KAWDUP said:

Think of it as SpartanMack doing the attacking, then answer again.

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I never had anything personal against him. Sure I think his politics are god awful and ignorant, as are his views on just about everything else, but I didn't hate him or anything. He did seem to have a hard time keeping things from getting personal though, and not just with me.

You apparently think I'm a very petty, hypocritical person who holds grudges.

I've definitely gotten pissed off here and there, mostly in response to MSU/OSU trolling after a loss (happens less often here than it did) or occasionally on political threads related to racial issues... but I've been solid at keeping to my New Year's resolution, I think.

tinselwolverine said:

Well the only thing I'm really very passionate about is watching pornography, but that's something that gets criticized quite a bit as it is.

For example, it would be surprising to see someone get particularly bent out of shape over a thread titled "people who watch pornography behaving badly."

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Where would that thread even go? Wouldn't it include pretty much everyone? It might as well be "People who breathe behaving badly"

I guess it could go under "Diggler's Junk, General"

I once suggested we rename that section, since he doesn't post anymore, but it didn't get any traction. I guess it serves as a memorial.

I have on occasion felt bad about starting this thread.

then again, on occasion I check and see the # of posts and # of views and am proud it is by far the most popular thread on the religion board. Go Me!

I try to only attack the christians who behave badly though, not the tenets of the religion, or otherwise pious and kind christians. and I tried to keep the bad behavior (the posts i add at least) on more lighthearted topics, not the child molestation stuff.

i'm not one of those guys videotaping himself putting a Bible in the toilet, or trashing an old lady's christmas manger display and posting it on youtube.

michchamp said:

You apparently think I'm a very petty, hypocritical person who holds grudges.

I've definitely gotten pissed off here and there, mostly in response to MSU/OSU trolling after a loss (happens less often here than it did) or occasionally on political threads related to racial issues... but I've been solid at keeping to my New Year's resolution, I think.



Where would that thread even go? Wouldn't it include pretty much everyone? It might as well be "People who breathe behaving badly"

I guess it could go under "Diggler's Junk, General"

I once suggested we rename that section, since he doesn't post anymore, but it didn't get any traction. I guess it serves as a memorialize.

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It probably would deserve it's all on board, the "people who watch pornography behaving badly" board.

Although Diggler's Junk would be very fitting because "Diggler" is from the name of the Boogie Nights main character.

michchamp said:

You apparently think I'm a very petty, hypocritical person who holds grudges.

I've definitely gotten pissed off here and there, mostly in response to MSU/OSU trolling after a loss (happens less often here than it did) or occasionally on political threads related to racial issues... but I've been solid at keeping to my New Year's resolution, I think.



Where would that thread even go? Wouldn't it include pretty much everyone? It might as well be "People who breathe behaving badly"

I guess it could go under "Diggler's Junk, General"

I once suggested we rename that section, since he doesn't post anymore, but it didn't get any traction. I guess it serves as a memorialize.

Click to expand...

It probably would deserve it's all on board, the "people who watch pornography behaving badly" board.

Although Diggler's Junk would be very fitting because "Diggler" is from the name of the Boogie Nights main character.

tinselwolverine said:

Well the only thing I'm really very passionate about is watching pornography, but that's something that gets criticized quite a bit as it is.

For example, it would be surprising to see someone get particularly bent out of shape over a thread titled "people who watch pornography behaving badly."

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Depends on the behavior - If you were watching child pornography, I suspect that thread would be useful.

michchamp said:

Because I have a pretty good sense of humor, maybe.

But seriously, I don't take a lot of things personally... I don't consider much sacred. I suppose if someone started attacking my wife and kids, and my family then I'd get upset. that's about it.

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Well there you are, would you say it is just a matter of how heinous the crime in your eyes, which was my point? For some people, attacking their faith is darn near the same thing.

michchamp said:

I never had anything personal against him. Sure I think his politics are god awful and ignorant, as are his views on just about everything else, but I didn't hate him or anything. He did seem to have a hard time keeping things from getting personal though, and not just with me.

You apparently think I'm a very petty, hypocritical person who holds grudges.

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There are times when I question a couple of those things, but that is my problem not yours.

I wasn't implying you hated him, but it would certainly get you to respond if he started attacking you. I was only stating that there are times and places and people that make you respond in a passionate way.

It really doesn't matter what the actual intent was, if it makes me feel like someone is tearing down something I hold pretty dear, I am going to respond. You don't have to like my response, or even read it for that matter, but I am still going to respond, usually rather pointedly.

There are some, who shall remain nameless, that like to post these things as a needle to poke at people who might take their faith rather seriously. To me that is just mean not funny or even all that entertaining.

here's a new one: members of an Evangelical church in NC beat the shit out of and nearly choke a gay guy to death in order to "purify him." Link. Hey! That's NOT what Jesus would do!

michchamp said:

here's a new one: members of an Evangelical church in NC beat the shit out of and nearly choke a gay guy to death in order to "purify him." Link. Hey! That's NOT what Jesus would do!

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They are simply carrying out the rules of Leviticus regarding homosexuality.

If anything they are doing the Christian thing.