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Old 02-04-2014, 06:51 PM   #11
Gulo Blue   Gulo Blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michchamp View Post
ones that attempt to justify curtailing civil rights and oppression?
Curtailing civil rights and oppression are the repercussions in the story used to warn of the dangers of too much adherence to the idealisms. In 1984 it's socialism, Atlas Shrugged, 'collectivism', all those movies I mentioned involve runaway capitalism. You can add Bioshock to that list, which is a rebuke to Atlas Shrugged. Great game.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. You think the point of 1984 and Atlas Shugged is that "curtailing civil rights and oppression" are bad? Or are you saying something else?



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Last edited by Gulo Blue; 02-04-2014 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:10 PM   #12
michchamp   michchamp is offline
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I think you should've said "competing interests" in regards to 1984, not competing ideas. Orwell doesn't really present "living under an oppressive totalitarian govt" as a choice for a reasonable person to make.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:57 AM   #13
byco42   byco42 is offline
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Shrugged, '84, Two Cities, Democracy in America, The Prince and Moby Dick. In my "Randian" phase I read pretty much all of her books, fiction and non.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:26 PM   #14
food4thought   food4thought is offline
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On some level, the opposite of 1984 could be A Brave New World....

1984: sexuality and reproduction controlled and oppressed, everyone controlled and watched through government program, constant cold war with another power

BNW: sexuality and reproduction controlled through genetic manipulation and programing from childhood, yet sexuality expressed wildly; everyone controlled via caste system based upon genetics and programming from childhood; no mention of opposing power, only outcasts living in poor conditions.

Two opposing visions of how technology and social evolution could lead to totalitarian governments... it's just that 1984 was in your face and BNW was much more subtle. Both futures were terrifying in their own way. 1984 runaway fascism and BNW runaway... eugenics/extreme liberalism gone wrong?
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:44 PM   #15
Mitchrapp   Mitchrapp is online now
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Moby Dick, or maybe it was the movie, and 1984.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:47 PM   #16
Mitchrapp   Mitchrapp is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by food4thought View Post
On some level, the opposite of 1984 could be A Brave New World....

1984: sexuality and reproduction controlled and oppressed, everyone controlled and watched through government program, constant cold war with another power

BNW: sexuality and reproduction controlled through genetic manipulation and programing from childhood, yet sexuality expressed wildly; everyone controlled via caste system based upon genetics and programming from childhood; no mention of opposing power, only outcasts living in poor conditions.

Two opposing visions of how technology and social evolution could lead to totalitarian governments... it's just that 1984 was in your face and BNW was much more subtle. Both futures were terrifying in their own way. 1984 runaway fascism and BNW runaway... eugenics/extreme liberalism gone wrong?
I did enjoy that book. High School I think.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:09 AM   #17
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is online now
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I read the Cliffs notes for all of them in college.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:19 AM   #18
michchamp   michchamp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by food4thought View Post
On some level, the opposite of 1984 could be A Brave New World....

1984: sexuality and reproduction controlled and oppressed, everyone controlled and watched through government program, constant cold war with another power

BNW: sexuality and reproduction controlled through genetic manipulation and programing from childhood, yet sexuality expressed wildly; everyone controlled via caste system based upon genetics and programming from childhood; no mention of opposing power, only outcasts living in poor conditions.

Two opposing visions of how technology and social evolution could lead to totalitarian governments... it's just that 1984 was in your face and BNW was much more subtle. Both futures were terrifying in their own way. 1984 runaway fascism and BNW runaway... eugenics/extreme liberalism gone wrong?
BNW did have the accommodating island for free thinkers where they could go so as not to disturb the established order. I read it a while ago, but I don't remember it being a harsh punishment; more like a quarantine.

you can see a bit of the methods of both books used to control society in real life.
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