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Old 12-22-2017, 11:33 AM   #21
tomdalton22   tomdalton22 is offline
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Originally Posted by michchamp View Post
no human being needs - or has earned, or deserves - a billion dollars. that's just silly. get real, guys.
If someone has $2B when they die the government takes about $800M to pass on to deadbeats that don't contribute anything. What did those deadbeats do to "earn" or "deserve" that money?



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Old 12-22-2017, 12:18 PM   #22
michchamp   michchamp is offline
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Originally Posted by tomdalton22 View Post
If someone has $2B when they die the government takes about $800M to pass on to deadbeats that don't contribute anything. What did those deadbeats do to "earn" or "deserve" that money?
not everything the government spends money on is welfare.

roads, rails, airports, bridges, ports, research grants, state and local funds, disease control, public health, education... jesus.

it's like you have to lie to try to attack estate taxes.
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Old 12-22-2017, 12:24 PM   #23
tomdalton22   tomdalton22 is offline
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Originally Posted by michchamp View Post
not everything the government spends money on is welfare.

roads, rails, airports, bridges, ports, research grants, state and local funds, disease control, public health, education... jesus.

it's like you have to lie to try to attack estate taxes.
well....why should the guy that had $2B have to pay for roads, rails, airports, bridges, ports, research grants, state and local funds, disease control, public health, education AND welfare when deadbeats don't contribute a dime?
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Old 12-22-2017, 12:26 PM   #24
Spartanmack   Spartanmack is offline
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Originally Posted by michchamp View Post
confiscating wealth and redistributing it isn't greedy; it's the opposite of greed, don't you understand?
taking something that belongs to someone else because you think they have too much and you or someone else has too little IS the epitome of greed.
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Old 12-22-2017, 12:34 PM   #25
Spartanmack   Spartanmack is offline
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Originally Posted by tinselwolverine View Post
Every society has always had to come to a negotiated way to resolve how the society was gonna pay for the common shit that a society simply has to pay for as a society.

Like the common defense:

Somebody, and everybody, to a degree, has to chip in from their own money or wealth or income or whatever to collectively pay for the shit.

So this talk of confiscation, and who is confiscating from whom, sounds like the quibbling of two petulant recalcitrant adolescents who both insist on being unequivocally ideologically right in the face of situations that societies need to address through an adult consensus.
Maybe it's ideological but I draw a distinction between income and wealth taxes - and it's not insignificant. Wealth has already been taxed as income and taxing it again is a clear double tax. Also, wealth is no different from any other private property - on top of the fact that they've already taxed it, the government has no legitimate claim to it.

I accept that we all have to pay an income tax - I don't accept that we can't do it in a much simpler and more fair way, but I'm not advocating for getting rid of it (except the corporate tax - we definitely should get rid of that). I think taxes should be primarily consumption based, particularly for infrastructure while income and property taxes should be used for things like defense, public safety, public services, etc.
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Old 12-22-2017, 12:35 PM   #26
Spartanmack   Spartanmack is offline
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Originally Posted by tomdalton22 View Post
well....why should the guy that had $2B have to pay for roads, rails, airports, bridges, ports, research grants, state and local funds, disease control, public health, education AND welfare when deadbeats don't contribute a dime?
especially if he or she is dead - he or she no longer has any use for those roads.

Last edited by Spartanmack; 12-22-2017 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 12-22-2017, 12:36 PM   #27
Spartanmack   Spartanmack is offline
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Originally Posted by michchamp View Post
not everything the government spends money on is welfare.

roads, rails, airports, bridges, ports, research grants, state and local funds, disease control, public health, education... jesus.

it's like you have to lie to try to attack estate taxes.
no. you have to lie to try to make the case for why the government has a claim to it.


you're argument is "we need it so we get to take it." And you think that's not greed. Amazing.

Last edited by Spartanmack; 12-22-2017 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:02 PM   #28
Gulo Blue   Gulo Blue is offline
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well....why should the guy that had $2B have to pay for roads, rails, airports, bridges, ports, research grants, state and local funds, disease control, public health, education AND welfare when deadbeats don't contribute a dime?
One way or another, if you make $2B, you used those roads, rails, airports, bridges, and ports much more than the average person.
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:04 PM   #29
Gulo Blue   Gulo Blue is offline
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Maybe it's ideological but I draw a distinction between income and wealth taxes - and it's not insignificant.
I do too, the inequality as I see it, is the ability to grow wealth and not call it income.
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:55 PM   #30
Spartanmack   Spartanmack is offline
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I do too, the inequality as I see it, is the ability to grow wealth and not call it income.
I agree with that. I oppose the carried interest loophole for asset managers - capital gains taxes should only apply to gains on their own capital invested, just like everyone else. Performance fees should be taxed as ordinary income. I'm also opposed to capital gains taxes though and think they should be done away with along with the corporate tax. Then all capital gains and corp distributions should be taxed as ordinary income to the recipient.
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