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Old 01-24-2018, 08:20 AM   #1
jwlcosu   jwlcosu is offline
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Both of These Can't Be True

Only one or the other can be true:

1. The Trump campaign colluded with Russians in order to influence the outcome of the election. Post-election, then, Trump obstructed justice in order to dodge the allegation.

2. The DNC and rogue elements within the DOJ and FBI targeted Trump and used a false dossier to get a FISA warrant that enabled them to effectively spy on American citizens with the goal being first to influence the outcome of the election and then to overturn the result.

In a nutshell, those are the competing narratives. One or the other is true. One or the other is a lie. Both are pretty disastrous. I line up strongly on the side of the second. I could be wrong. I'm a little worried.

Whichever narrative is true, this story has to come out in full.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:28 AM   #2
Mitchrapp   Mitchrapp is offline
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Lets make it easy. Conservatives will say 2, Liberals will say 1.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:21 AM   #3
michchamp   michchamp is offline
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How about this for a nuanced take?

1) is not fully true. to what extent Trump jr., Roger Stone or some other jerkoff from Trump's rogue gallery did seek to meet with Russians for dirt on the Clinton campaign, or Trump has business dealings with shady Russian individuals is anybody's guess, but I do not believe in either case it lead to Trump's victory over Clinton.

Clinton was (Clinton IS) and unlikeable person who ran a terrible campaign that offered nothing to voters, besides more of the same neoliberal economic policies that have hurt the middle and lower classes: deregulation, tax cuts, laissex faire economics & outsourcing jobs through trade deals, and more money for the industrial defense complex. Notice: those are all the same things that the GOP wants.

people fell for it when Obama offered "hope," but his 8 years revealed that anybody vetted by the DNC is a wolf in sheep's clothing, and in practice going to ply the same socially and economically destructive policies Reagan did. Clinton's only chance to run on that platform and win was 2008. no one is going to buy it again.

2) may be true, but regardless the FBI/NSA/CIA have been spying on ALL American citizens, including political candidates, regularly, and this was first leaked in 2005 and confirmed and reported on, and later fully confirmed - with a bang - by Edward Snowden.

Republitard dickheads didn't care in 2005 when Bush was in office, and have routinely called Snowden a traitor and called for him to be tried for treason or summarily executed without trial, so Republitards have no moral, ideological or reasonable grounds to complain about domestic warrantless spying now, and should STFU and GFT.
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Old 01-24-2018, 12:00 PM   #4
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is online now
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Of course they can both be true.
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Old 01-24-2018, 02:42 PM   #5
michchamp   michchamp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinselwolverine View Post
Of course they can both be true.
don't question his logical reasoning skills. You'll trigger him.
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:11 PM   #6
jwlcosu   jwlcosu is offline
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I get what you're both saying and having thought about it, agree there can be a degree of truth to each narrative. But face it, one of the narratives has to win. Whoever the bad guys are need to be crushed.
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:29 PM   #7
tinselwolverine   tinselwolverine is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwlcosu View Post
I get what you're both saying and having thought about it, agree there can be a degree of truth to each narrative. But face it, one of the narratives has to win. Whoever the bad guys are need to be crushed.
I made this point on the FISA thread already -

The Clintons and Trump are all bad guys. They've gotten away with heinous shit always. I don't see why anything is going to be different.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:41 PM   #8
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I've chosen my side long ago. I could be wrong to but there ain't no turning back now, had a strange thought last night though.. What if both sides are all just rounded up and indicted and pence is left in charge when the dust settles. That scenario prolly avoids any CW but pence probably wouldn't win in 2020, some lib dem would get back in again and the market goes from unprecedented highs to unprecedented lows and we all end up in squalor still

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Old 01-24-2018, 05:49 PM   #9
michchamp   michchamp is offline
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I've chosen my side long ago. I could be wrong to but there ain't no turning back now, had a strange thought last night though.. What if both sides are all just rounded up and indicted and pence is left in charge when the dust settles. That scenario prolly avoids any CW but the market would still tank.
you can and should turn back now.

Pence will be Trump but w/out Mar-a-lago and all the tawdry botched plastic surgery "high society" types, strippers, prostitutes around all the time. the policies won't be any different.

there won't be a civil war. get real. there's not even any geographic divide between the two sides. and despite all the tough talk and macho posturing at rallies, how many "MAGA types" are really going to go to war over Trump getting impeached?

answer: very few, and they would all be killed in 2 seconds by the FBI/ATF or state police.
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:07 PM   #10
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you can and should turn back now.

Pence will be Trump but w/out Mar-a-lago and all the tawdry botched plastic surgery "high society" types, strippers, prostitutes around all the time. the policies won't be any different.

there won't be a civil war. get real. there's not even any geographic divide between the two sides. and despite all the tough talk and macho posturing at rallies, how many "MAGA types" are really going to go to war over Trump getting impeached?

answer: very few, and they would all be killed in 2 seconds by the FBI/ATF or state police.

ummm NO I am more worried about your side starting a CW if all those named in the soon to be released FISA memo are all eventually hauled off to the poke. You people are a bunch of foaming at the mouth hateful crazy bastards. Like this guy.

https://www.infowars.com/uncensored-...-at-reporters/

and no Pence is not nearly as america first anti globalist guy as trump, if anything happens to trump i'm selling everything into the lowest risk safest store and/or short funds ASAP without hesitation, as it will be over and years of decline will then start up again.

Last edited by tigermud; 01-24-2018 at 06:12 PM.
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