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Massive Washington Post story on Obama & Russian actions leading up to the election

Gulo Blue

Gulo Blue

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
13,502
Massive Washington Post story on Obama & Russian actions leading up to the election

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...utin-election-hacking/?utm_term=.029d92c40a07

This article is huge (long) and discusses Obama's reactions to whatever he knew about Russian efforts to influence the election. It doesn't reveal any evidence of Russian influence, just reactions. While I don't think you can tell if the information is convincing or unconvincing since it seems that people are reacting along partisan lines, the article asserts that US spy agencies unanimously agree there was a Russian program directed by Putin.

I don't know how big the impact of Russia's efforts were and I still lean towards Clinton's rigging of the Dem primary as being the bigger impact on the election. But I also think that foreign efforts to influence our elections should be reacted to harshly, including economic sanctions.

The article is paired with an equally huge timeline:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...ssia-hacking-timeline/?utm_term=.ada5fd8f769b
 
There seems to be a mixed reaction here. This was the 1st issue that required blacking out a certain video feed of the situation room since the raid that got Bin Laden, but then Obama's actual actions impacting Russia were very restrained and among the weakest reactions of the options recommended to him.
 
So you're saying it's a great wall of text that reports nothing new and really not much at.

Thanks for the synopsis.
 
tinselwolverine said:
So you're saying it's a great wall of text that reports nothing new and really not much at.

Thanks for the synopsis.
Click to expand...

This too:

A month later, Obama confronted Putin directly during a meeting of world leaders in Hangzhou, China. Accompanied only by interpreters, Obama told Putin that ?we knew what he was doing and [he] better stop or else,? according to a senior aide who subsequently spoke with Obama. Putin responded by demanding proof and accusing the United States of interfering in Russia?s internal affairs.
In a subsequent news conference, Obama alluded to the exchange and issued a veiled threat. ?We?re moving into a new era here where a number of countries have significant capacities,? he said. ?Frankly, we?ve got more capacity than anybody both offensively and defensively.?

...

Obama also approved a previously undisclosed covert measure that authorized planting cyber weapons in Russia?s infrastructure, the digital equivalent of bombs that could be detonated if the United States found itself in an escalating exchange with Moscow. The project, which Obama approved in a covert-action finding, was still in its planning stages when Obama left office. It would be up to President Trump to decide whether to use the capability.
...
Officials familiar with the measures said that there was concern among some in the administration that the damage caused by the implants could be difficult to contain.

As a result, the administration requested a legal review, which concluded that the devices could be controlled well enough that their deployment would be considered ?proportional? in varying scenarios of Russian provocation, a requirement under international law.

The operation was described as long-term, taking months to position the implants and requiring maintenance thereafter. Under the rules of covert action, Obama?s signature was all that was necessary to set the operation in motion.

U.S. intelligence agencies do not need further approval from Trump, and officials said that he would have to issue a countermanding order to stop it. The officials said that they have seen no indication that Trump has done so
Click to expand...
 
we need to go back to paper ballots, hand counted in public. that's the standard the UN calls for to ensure transparency in the democratic process.

just like in the UK.

but of course, Diebold makes the voting machines and is a huge GOP donor, and *surprise surprise* any actual voter fraud tends to result in the GOP winning close elections, so...
 
I'm sick of this story, BTW.

It's completely absurd & harmful for a number of reasons:
1) no hard evidence is ever actually disclosed
2) even if the Russians did hack our election, it isn't realistically going to change jack shit we do, or who is president
3) it distracts everyone from actual political events that effect us occurring in DC
4) like we haven't actively interfered in just about every election that has occurred around the world since 1945, including in Russia in the 90's.
 
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michchamp said:
I'm sick of this story, BTW.

It's completely absurd & harmful for a number of reasons:
1) no hard evidence is ever actually disclosed
2) even if the Russians did hack our election, it isn't realistically going to change jack shit we do, or who is president
3) it distracts everyone from actual political events that effect us occurring in DC
4) like we haven't actively interfered in just about every election that has occurred around the world since 1945, including in Russia in the 90's.
Click to expand...

If we don't give a crap about this, how are we supposed to give a crap about internal election BS? I get that the system is broken, but if this isn't a line in the sand, we should stop pretending we care about Super Pacs or gerrymandering too. President Camacho 2020.
 
Gulo Blue said:
If we don't give a crap about this, how are we supposed to give a crap about internal election BS? I get that the system is broken, but if this isn't a line in the sand, we should stop pretending we care about Super Pacs or gerrymandering too. President Camacho 2020.
Click to expand...

I don't follow. Because we decide to disregard an election hacking story for which we still have no evidence, we can't address actual obvious problems with our political system?

and I said above we should move to paper ballots to prevent electronic hacking and fraud.

we can't really address foreign (Russian) meddling in our election unless: 1) we stop doing such things ourselves, and 2) we stop letting other nations hire lobbyists and fund influence groups here, like Israel or Saudi Arabia. They have meddled in our domestic and by extension foreign policies far more extensively than Russia has.
 
Gulo Blue said:
I haven't followed closely enough to know what details are new news and what aren't, but CBS News is citing this article and highlighting the August report given to Obama claiming that this went all the way up to Putin.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vladimir-putin-gave-direct-instructions-help-elect-donald-trump-report/
Click to expand...

There are no new details.

Pretty much for sure some Russian hacked the DNC.

Some information got to and was leaked by the Wikileaks dude.

It showed that the "objective, unbiased" DNC rigged the nomination as much as possible in favor of Clinton.
 
tinselwolverine said:
There are no new details.

Pretty much for sure some Russian hacked the DNC.

...
Click to expand...

I don't know if that's even true. They recovered that info from Podesta's gmail account and I read the attack was pretty unsophisticated. it was embarassing some dipshit Hillary staffer fell for it.
 
michchamp said:
I don't know if that's even true. They recovered that info from Podesta's gmail account and I read the attack was pretty unsophisticated. it was embarassing some dipshit Hillary staffer fell for it.
Click to expand...

Maybe it really some 400 pound guy sitting on his bed.
 
michchamp said:
I don't follow. Because we decide to disregard an election hacking story for which we still have no evidence, we can't address actual obvious problems with our political system?

and I said above we should move to paper ballots to prevent electronic hacking and fraud.

we can't really address foreign (Russian) meddling in our election unless: 1) we stop doing such things ourselves, and 2) we stop letting other nations hire lobbyists and fund influence groups here, like Israel or Saudi Arabia. They have meddled in our domestic and by extension foreign policies far more extensively than Russia has.
Click to expand...

How is this not an actual obvious problem? We have Comey and now the Washington Post saying there was Russian interference. Are you sure they're lying? Even if you have doubts, I don't see how you just shrug this off. We don't have the evidence and both Comey and the Washington Post say they are withholding details. If those details can't be shared, then fine. But we should be able, as a nation, to respond appropriately. We should have leaders from both sides of the isle that do get to see the evidence, tell the American people if there was interference, and respond. This is beyond messed up. If we're so partisan we can't function, we're screwed.

And the idea that we can't defend ourselves from things we've done in the past or are doing is BS. It's bad to be a hypocrite, and it's bad to keep on doing bad things, but that doesn't suddenly force you to accept it from others. The effort to stop doing bad things shouldn't extend to the point where you think you should stop defending yourself.
 
michchamp said:
I don't know if that's even true. They recovered that info from Podesta's gmail account and I read the attack was pretty unsophisticated. it was embarassing some dipshit Hillary staffer fell for it.
Click to expand...

This is a year old:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...b6c1998b7a0_story.html?utm_term=.50732762f29e

Russian government hackers penetrated the computer network of the Democratic National Committee and gained access to the entire database of opposition research on GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, according to committee officials and security experts who responded to the breach.

The intruders so thoroughly compromised the DNC?s system that they also were able to read all email and chat traffic, said DNC officials and the security experts.
Click to expand...
 
I'm not as concerned about this story -- along what MC said, I think it's a distraction taking away from what Ryan and McConnell are doing behind closed doors.

What I think is more troubling is the money laundering/Russian Mob influence on the real estate and business side.
 
TheVictors said:
I'm not as concerned about this story -- along what MC said, I think it's a distraction taking away from what Ryan and McConnell are doing behind closed doors.

What I think is more troubling is the money laundering/Russian Mob influence on the real estate and business side.
Click to expand...

it is, and that Russian mob story has been around from almost Day 1 of the presidential campaign. in a sane country it would've more or less disqualified him during the primaries. Of course, his entire career and persona should've disqualified him, but whatever.

I figured if he was actually selling out in a manner that harmed US government or corporate interests directly, they would've buried him with so much bad press during the campaign that even the TigerMuds of the country would've ditched him.

As it is, he's connections are merely "back alley casino" sleazy, not like "national security" sleazy, which actually makes him more useful to the powers that be as they have plenty of "leverage" against him. and look at the results: pretty much his entire cabinet was handpicked by the Kochs or their ilk... not blue collar voters in Scranton, or Wausau, or Grand Rapids as the rubes expected.

And the military has gotten free reign to operate like never before... did you see the articles on how Trump basically delegated decision making authority in Afghanistan & the Middle East to Mattis? should be horrifying to most people.
 
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michchamp said:
I thought they never actually revealed evidence of Russian involvement; in all these stories whenever someone dug deeper, all they found were allegations by unnamed officials.
Click to expand...

I think this is one of those things where there are enough degrees of verification and elements that people burn out. The waters were muddied enough to make it unclear who was claiming what and who was just speculating.

A year ago, DNC files were leaked, US intelligence and cyber security firms reportedly said it was the Russian government. But they weren't sure if it was politically motivated or just regular surveillance.


The Obama administration said it was confident it was part of an effort to influence the election in October. They weren't specific about how they wanted to influence it and Russia denied it.

?The U.S. Intelligence Community is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from U.S. persons and institutions, including from U.S. political organizations,? said a joint statement from the two agencies. ?. . . These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the U.S. election process.?
Click to expand...

In December, unnamed sources said there was a secret CIA report that claimed Russian government employees acted to get Trump elected, but it was not yet tied to Russian leadership.

In January, in a declassified report, the National Intelligence Council said Putin directed an effort to undermine Clinton and assist Trump in the election.

The only new stuff here is the stuff Obama was doing or considering doing (and initiated on the way out) at the time. To me, the lack of action on our government's part helped sustain doubt as this unfolded.
 
michchamp said:
I thought they never actually revealed evidence of Russian involvement; in all these stories whenever someone dug deeper, all they found were allegations by unnamed officials.
Click to expand...

They still haven't declassified the actual evidence. I assume it is very technical. But the have made these claims in an official capacity.
 
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Gulo Blue said:
They still haven't declassified the actual evidence. I assume it is very technical. But the have made these claims in an official capacity.
Click to expand...

it still doesn't add up... the CIA and FBI have regularly lied to civilian leadership in the senate and courts, destroyed evidence, obsctructed justice whenever they felt like it and generally crapped all over US law when it suits them. Now they had evidence a foreign government was actively influencing our elections and they just sat their for a year+ twiddling their thumbs because they're so respectful of US law and policy that they wouldn't dump all this evidence of foreign meddling out in the open and sink Trump's campaign to the bottom of the Atlantic?

they either knew it was going on and were okay with it for some reason, or the story as its being told -Russia put its finger on the scale for Trump and destabilized our democracy - is not what it seems.
 
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