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Tigers vs. redsox ALCS Game 3 Thread

Not letting you off the hook either miggy, that at bat last night with 1st and 3rd one out was absolute horsecrap and you are better than that!

Yeah yeah injury this injury that but yeah his post season numbers last year weren't that great either
 
tigermud said:
Not letting you off the hook either miggy, that at bat last night with 1st and 3rd one out was absolute horsecrap and you are better than that!

Yeah yeah injury this injury that but yeah his post season numbers last year weren't that great either
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I was sitting with my wife at the game and I told her, this at bat may be the entire season here. I understand that he's been injured but that has nothing to do with him swinging at a pitch that's a foot outside.
 
Guess they finally found that higher league for him


Post season shit the bed league
 
byco42 said:
John Lackey to Farrell: "You gotta be s*iting me" when he was removed from the game. Scherzer: "I was done." That's the difference in a nutshell between the Tigers and Red Sox. A few exceptions: Infante, Hunter, Victor, Jhonny--the have #TWTW. Not Princess, though. Yesterday, I said to sbee that Fielder needed to be in the lineup. I don't think that now. I say sit his fat butt down and play Victor at first. I don't care who DHs in Victor's place. And get Jackson out of the leadoff spot. Put Infante, Hunter, Cabrera, Victor, Jhonny ... anybody else. Or do the Martin trick I mentioned yesterday. Draw the lineup from a hat. The results certainly can be no worse than yesterday.
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To be fair, Lackey was not throwing gas like Max and JV, who cameras also caught agreeing with Leyland in the dugout.

Lackey simply did less work, and hadn't pitched the stressed games that Max and JV had.

I think it's pretty unfair to try to compare guys coming out after full innings of throwing hard, and making great pitches to rack up strikeouts, to a guy coming out mid-inning after less than 100 pitches.

Most of the rest I don't disagree with, except for the "lineup out of a hat" part., but implying that Max (or JV) didn't have the heart or guts to go on is just silly.
 
Thumb said:
To be fair, Lackey was not throwing gas like Max and JV, who cameras also caught agreeing with Leyland in the dugout.

Lackey simply did less work, and hadn't pitched the stressed games that Max and JV had.

I think it's pretty unfair to try to compare guys coming out after full innings of throwing hard, and making great pitches to rack up strikeouts, to a guy coming out mid-inning after less than 100 pitches.

Most of the rest I don't disagree with, except for the "lineup out of a hat" part., but implying that Max (or JV) didn't have the heart or guts to go on is just silly.
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I have no problem with a pitcher saying that he doesn't have a lot left, it's better than trying to be macho and staying in the game too long. I don't think it's that our guys are soft, maybe they're more mature and understand the dangers of staying in an extra inning.
 
Sbee said:
I have no problem with a pitcher saying that he doesn't have a lot left, it's better than trying to be macho and staying in the game too long. I don't think it's that our guys are soft, maybe they're more mature and understand the dangers of staying in an extra inning.
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Keep in mind that Max has never thrown a complete game in his career, and he also threw 47 pitches on only 3 days rest against Oakland in his last appearance. I'm not surprised he got tired.
 
UMRules06 said:
Keep in mind that Max has never thrown a complete game in his career, and he also threw 47 pitches on only 3 days rest against Oakland in his last appearance. I'm not surprised he got tired.
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but he had 5 days to recover from that 47 pitch outing, I don't know if that's a valid reason for him to be tired. I just respect if a pitcher puts the team above himself and lets the manager know when he's starting to tire and could leave some pitches up
 
Thumb said:
To be fair, Lackey was not throwing gas like Max and JV, who cameras also caught agreeing with Leyland in the dugout.

Lackey simply did less work, and hadn't pitched the stressed games that Max and JV had.

I think it's pretty unfair to try to compare guys coming out after full innings of throwing hard, and making great pitches to rack up strikeouts, to a guy coming out mid-inning after less than 100 pitches.

Most of the rest I don't disagree with, except for the "lineup out of a hat" part., but implying that Max (or JV) didn't have the heart or guts to go on is just silly.
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I think that Lackey would have protested in 9th inning as much as he did in the seventh. Never mentioned Verlander in any way. Lackey did "less work?" He was removed on pitch 97 ... sliders stress the arm more than fastballs do and 1/3 of his pitches were sliders, 15% of Scherzer's were. I'm parsing somewhat, but here's something interesting in as far as velocity for Scherzer: (Approx) Pitches greater/equal to 96 = 10. 94-95. = 17 92-93 = 23. < 92 = 9.That accounts for 59 of 64 fastballs. Pitches < 90 = 44. So it's not like he was dialing up 95+ on every pitch and he threw 23 changeups.
 
Sbee said:
but he had 5 days to recover from that 47 pitch outing, I don't know if that's a valid reason for him to be tired. I just respect if a pitcher puts the team above himself and lets the manager know when he's starting to tire and could leave some pitches up
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I don't know if it's valid or not either. People's bodies all respond to stress in different ways so who knows. I'm certainly not gonna call the guy out on anything. I agree with you that it's important a pitcher puts the team ahead of his own ego and pride.
 
Shakeup for tonight's game;
Tigers lineup:
Hunter 9,
Cabrera 5,
Fielder 3,
Martinez DH,
Peralta 7,
Avila 2,
Infante 4,
Jackson 8,
Iglesias 6.

Tonight will be the first time Torii Hunter is hitting leadoff since Sept. 24, 2000. or 7/04/99.
Depending on who is right.
In his career, Tigers Hunter has led off in just 25 games, batting .164 (11-67) with two doubles, 1 triple, four walks and 13 Ks.

Most impressive thing about Leyland's batting order move? Ignoring Austin Jackson's .321/.367/.571 career line against Peavy.
dave cameron
 
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I like it, assuming Hunter understand he's hitting leadoff, which means he has to be smart and not rip for the fences every swing.

I also love that Vmart is hitting cleanup, without getting into that debate again, I have always believed the best hitter should be 4th, and right now that is clearly Victor.

Kudos Jim, on swapping things up.
 
excellent lineup, whether or not we score a lot of runs tonight it's still a good move. Jackson needed to go down and we're getting our better hitters in position to drive runs in
 
byco42 said:
I think that Lackey would have protested in 9th inning as much as he did in the seventh. Never mentioned Verlander in any way. Lackey did "less work?" He was removed on pitch 97 ... sliders stress the arm more than fastballs do and 1/3 of his pitches were sliders, 15% of Scherzer's were. I'm parsing somewhat, but here's something interesting in as far as velocity for Scherzer: (Approx) Pitches greater/equal to 96 = 10. 94-95. = 17 92-93 = 23. < 92 = 9.That accounts for 59 of 64 fastballs. Pitches < 90 = 44. So it's not like he was dialing up 95+ on every pitch and he threw 23 changeups.
Click to expand...


Yes, the slider takes it toll on the arm more than the fastball, but probably not in terms of overall fatigue, which is likely what the issue was. Also Changeups use the exact same mechanics and body/arm motion as a fastball, the grip is what slows it down, so technically a changeup and a fastball would have almost an equal fatigue factor.

And I also pointed out 2 differences you didn't mention in your reply.

1. Lackey was taken out mid-inning, that's the reason for him being upset, no pitcher likes to have the ball taken from him while he's on the mound. Big difference from the end of an inning when you are asked by your manager for a "fuel check" and he decides you have done enough.

2. Scherzer pitched more, in higher pressure games prior to thier last outings, respectivly than Lackey. When Lackey came out he was well rested, having not pitched since the 5th, sitting around waiting for the OAK-DET series to finish, while Scherzer was contributing from the bullpen.
 
spockmaster said:
lets just hope it works.
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whether it works or not.. had to be done, can't be much worse.. probably should have done it yesterday. Let's just hope it's not a day late and a dollar short, like with coke facing big angry guy.
 
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