I won't argue with you there but you'll be hard-pressed to find someone that has a fit for Reggie.

I don't think an under .500 getting blown out in the round round sells ticket. Fans aren't dumb..

Mitchrapp said:

I don't think an under .500 getting blown out in the round round sells ticket. Fans aren't dumb..

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yes they are, the Lions sell out almost every game.

tomdalton22 said:

yes they are, the Lions sell out almost every game.

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That's exactly the point. They like football.. it's not about the playoffs, but the sport and a night out.

They'll sell out, but there will be a heck of a lot of Cleveland fans in the building.

Mitchrapp said:

That's exactly the point. They like football.. it's not about the playoffs, but the sport and a night out.

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my point was that fans are stupid

The meeting opened rifts that have only begun to heal. "The way they came at Reggie wasn't cool," Drummond told ESPN.com. "You can't beat a guy up for not playing at 100 percent right after coming back. Guys who have played with pain -- you think they would be more sensitive."

Everyone's hurt, Andre. It's athletic competition. If Reggie can't play at a high level, tell the coaches and take a few more games off. Such a soft, soft comment.

tomdalton22 said:

my point was that fans are stupid

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And you're wrong. You call them stupid because they want to go see a ballgame? Some of my best times was at Tiger Stadium. Didn't matter how good or bad they were.. I was with my Dad and we had fun..

Drummond looks worse as a Piston because the team is poorly constructed. Now it's true that he's not as good as DeMarcus Cousins or as talented as Karl Anthony-Towns. He's not a franchise changer by himself. But people should tap the breaks on saying that he isn't that good.

A I said originally, my reason for trading him isn't about him, its about the team. I don't need to guarantee that the pick ends up being a better individual player for it to work, just that the team gets a realistic chance st resetting what is broken. And what's broken right now is the distribution of assets. Statistically, our two best players (by a huge margin) are Drummond and Boban, player that cannot share the court together and be successful. The team has committed almost 30 million per year to two just above average PFs, despite the fact that SF is a huge hole filled by inefficient shooters and poor defenders.

You can't win that way. Even the 2000s Pistons had two superstars (Chauncey and Ben), with legitimately good role players around them. Moving Drummond gives the team a chance to reset how talent and money is distributed. Maybe they land a star, maybe not, but if they aren't even trying for one, if they are happy paying superstar money to middling talents, then they don't really have any intention of getting better.

Good call. I get tired of hearing that the 2004 Pistons were filled with a bunch of role players that played "team ball" and won above their heads. While it is true they didn't have a "superstar," of the Kobe, LeBron ilk, that team was filled with stars.

everyoneneedsasmil said:

Drummond looks worse as a Piston because the team is poorly constructed. Now it's true that he's not as good as DeMarcus Cousins or as talented as Karl Anthony-Towns. He's not a franchise changer by himself. But people should tap the breaks on saying that he isn't that good.

A I said originally, my reason for trading him isn't about him, its about the team. I don't need to guarantee that the pick ends up being a better individual player for it to work, just that the team gets a realistic chance st resetting what is broken. And what's broken right now is the distribution of assets. Statistically, our two best players (by a huge margin) are Drummond and Boban, player that cannot share the court together and be successful. The team has committed almost 30 million per year to two just above average PFs, despite the fact that SF is a huge hole filled by inefficient shooters and poor defenders.

You can't win that way. Even the 2000s Pistons had two superstars (Chauncey and Ben), with legitimately good role players around them. Moving Drummond gives the team a chance to reset how talent and money is distributed. Maybe they land a star, maybe not, but if they aren't even trying for one, if they are happy paying superstar money to middling talents, then they don't really have any intention of getting better.

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I just don't see Boban being a good starting caliber player. He has zero athleticism. If he plays any amount of extended minutes I think he will be exposed. He could possibly be a good backup / role player.

I disagree with your assessment that Chauncey and Ben were superstars....you and I must have very different definitions of "superstar"

I don't think they were superstars, but they were stars. And the team was filled with stars.

The Pistons have “quietly explored” the trade market for Andre Drummond and Reggie Jackson, two of their roster’s centerpieces, Zach Lowe of ESPN.com reports in his latest piece, which is a deep dive into the situation in Detroit. According to Lowe, the Pistons came away disappointed with what teams might be willing to offer for Drummond or Jackson, reducing the likelihood of either player being moved in the next eight days.

Still, while a Drummond trade remains an “extreme long shot,” a deal involving Jackson isn’t entirely off the table. Lowe suggests the Timberwolves, Magic, and Pelicans are among the potential suitors for the veteran point guard, if Detroit is willing to settle for a modest return. Per Lowe, Jackson’s value has “cratered,” and a player like Ricky Rubio is one of the few solid starters the Pistons could get in any trade package. Lottery teams seeking a long-term solution at point guard are unwilling to move their first-round picks for Jackson, and Detroit isn’t ready to simply dump him for a collection of expiring contracts.

In his attempt to find a potential trade partner for a Jackson deal, Lowe identifies the Magic and Nuggets, pointing to players like Elfrid Payton and Emmanuel Mudiay as possible trade pieces. However, while Mudiay is believed to be available, Denver doesn’t appear to have interest in Jackson. Lowe notes that Orlando is an “intriguing” possibility, since GM Rob Hennigan was in Oklahoma City’s front office when the team drafted Jackson.

Here’s more from Lowe on Jackson, along with a few other intriguing Pistons-related tidbits:

The Pelicans have kicked the tires on Jackson, but never engaged in serious talks, league sources tell Lowe.
According to Lowe, several Pistons players criticized Jackson during a December players-only meeting for his apparent lack of effort on defense. Drummond tells Lowe that the criticism “wasn’t cool,” since Jackson was coming off an injury and wasn’t yet 100%. However, both Drummond and Stan Van Gundy acknowledge that the team has struggled to adjust to Jackson’s presence on the court this year after finding a groove early in the season with Ish Smith handling the point.
According to Lowe, a fear that top free agents won’t come to Detroit has pushed the Pistons to acquire solid players on good contracts when they become available. Those players aren’t always a fit with Drummond and Van Gundy, which has contributed to some of the team’s roster issues.

Multiple teams, including the Spurs, made an effort to nab Stanley Johnson in a trade after Van Gundy publicly called out the second-year forward earlier in the season. Although the Pistons rebuffed those efforts, the team has been frustrated by Devin Booker‘s development in comparison to Johnson’s, since the draft room was “almost deadlocked” between those two players in 2015, says Lowe.

The Pistons are unlikely to make a major move until closer to the draft, since they want to make the playoffs and are reluctant to do anything that will adversely impact their odds of earning a postseason spot, says Lowe. The ESPN analyst notes that Kentavious Caldwell-Pope‘s pending restricted free agency will be an interesting case to follow this offseason, since the Pistons may have to shed a salary – perhaps Tobias Harris‘ or Boban Marjanovic‘s – if they need to match a max offer sheet for Caldwell-Pope.

While I can understand Chauncey being underestimated (he never had tremendous counting stats), I don't know how else to think of Ben but as one of the best defenders ever. Yeah, Ben was garbage on offense. But I think it's generally pretty overlooked just how bad defensively most of the great scoring superstars really are/were. Just taking someone from the same time period, Kobe's defense was almost entirely situational after his rookie year (he COULD defend, but instead rested on defense unless it was the end of the game). That's not to say Ben was actually as good as Kobe overall, but it's closer than most people probably think.

Chauncey, meanwhile, was a superstar in subtlety. In a generation of volume scorers, Chauncey was hyper efficient AND a good defender. He played on one of the slowest teams in the era, so his efficiency was even more valuable (in a game of fewer possessions, each possession becomes more valuable individually). Steve Nash gets the accolades for his shooting and passing, but Chauncey was quite arguably the more valuable throughout - he just didn't have the luxury of playing on a fast paced team with a PnR partner like Amare.

But even if I take away the "superstar" label, I don't think there's any argument that both of those guys were better than anyone currently on the team. You simply can't win with a team of mediocre players. That's never been true, even when the media tries to build it up as such.

Also, as for Boban, you are right that he has no speed. But athleticism is only valuable if the player is smart enough to know how to use it. Zach Lavine is one of the most athletic players in the entire league, yet he's been god-awful in terms of team impact in his career. Boban isn't going to get around the court quickly, but he's very smart and knows how to leverage his talents. He puts himself between the ball handler and the net, and he's big enough that raising his arms affects every shot near him. He gets in position early, on both ends of the floor. He actually boxes out, and he actually grabs slightly more boards than Andre on a per-possession basis. That he can hit his free throws and the occasional jumper doesn't hurt either.

Any primarily deep post player is going to suffer here (Andre and Boban both in that regard), but Boban's numbers have almost always panned out with given more minutes. Maybe he would get exposed in an aggressive defensive scheme (he certainly can't contain or recover against perimeter players like Andre), but he's still going to do all the little things that are scheme agnostic. The main point about showing that Boban statistically is one of our best players is that it should really help understand just how mediocre/bad the rest of the team is outside Andre.

This team is committing 56 million dollars per year to its frontcourt, about half that money going to players that can't play together, and the other half to players who wouldn't move the needle on a good team.

from ESPN

The Detroit Pistons have discussed a trade with the Orlando Magic that would send point guard Reggie Jackson to the Magic in exchange for a package headlined by D.J. Augustin and Jeff Green, according to league sources.

tomdalton22 said:

from ESPN

The Detroit Pistons have discussed a trade with the Orlando Magic that would send point guard Reggie Jackson to the Magic in exchange for a package headlined by D.J. Augustin and Jeff Green, according to league sources.

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That'll be damned hilarious.

I get that Reggie isn't playing well, but Green and Augustin are a dumpster fire of a trade. Both are backups at best, and cutting Reggie's contract in half (Augustin) isn't worth much.

everyoneneedsasmil said:

I get that Reggie isn't playing well, but Green and Augustin are a dumpster fire of a trade. Both are backups at best, and cutting Reggie's contract in half (Augustin) isn't worth much.

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When did an NBA trade make sense.

Mitchrapp said:

When did an NBA trade make sense.

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Normally one side tends to come out way ahead thanks to the incompetence of the other side. I just hoped we'd stop being the incompetent side at some point.