Welcome to Detroit Sports Forum!

By joining our community, you'll be able to connect with fellow fans that live and breathe Detroit sports just like you!

Get Started
  • If you are no longer able to access your account since our recent switch from vBulletin to XenForo, you may need to reset your password via email. If you no longer have access to the email attached to your account, please fill out our contact form and we will assist you ASAP. Thanks for your continued support of DSF.

Trump cancelled ethics training for staff

I just started reading this biography of Trump, and recommend it to everyone.

the author, Wayne Barrett, was a longtime writer for the Village Voice in NYC, and had followed Trump's career since the early 80's. he detailed how Trump first tried to sweet talk him into writing about him favorably, then tried to bribe him, then tried to threaten him, and finally ignored him completely when he saw none of those approaches would work on Barret.

Barret actually died the day before Trump's inauguration. go figure.

anyways, he details in the book how Trump's own attorneys decided they needed to meet with him in pairs because he was so dishonest... he would change his story constantly. even to people on his side, even over mundane facts or details. his own attorneys needed to make sure they had someone who could corroborate what he said because he couldn't even be honest with them about anything.

Hillary is (or was) a dishonest politician. Trump is a pathological liar.
 
I just started reading this biography of Trump, and recommend it to everyone.

the author, Wayne Barrett, was a longtime writer for the Village Voice in NYC, and had followed Trump's career since the early 80's. he detailed how Trump first tried to sweet talk him into writing about him favorably, then tried to bribe him, then tried to threaten him, and finally ignored him completely when he saw none of those approaches would work on Barret.

Barret actually died the day before Trump's inauguration. go figure.

That guy died?

I'm pretty sure I've heard the guy on radio telling the story of his interactions with Trump.
 
"Well...well...YOUR guy lied more than MY guy!"

"Nuh uh! And even if they did, ALL politicians lie, it's totally normal!"

Fucking serious guys? Lies aren't good no matter who does it. There's no excusing it, I don't care how many other politicians have lied. Wouldn't it be simpler to just say, "Yeah, not cool that my guy lied about _____."

Serious as a fart - if, of course, you consider the source. :*)

My answer was totally in response to the complete hysteria that is lately associated with Trumps lies.

Maybe this will help - yeah, not cool that the nutcase in the Whitehouse is a liar.

. . . but Hillary lied more. Nyah! Nyah!
 
I think the difference is that typical politician lies are things that are more difficult to prove to be lies. They require some kind of secret information to be leaked or they involve some technicality that makes a very misleading statement to be true. Trump says things like the rain stopped when it didn't, or one crowd was bigger than another crowd, or he had the biggest electoral win since Reagan, things that are easily shown to be wrong. And when he's corrected, he doubles down on the lie or just says he heard it somewhere. It's not just that isn't easily shown to be wrong, it's stupid stuff where there's no reason to lie about it. Why lose credibility to advance a story about when the sun came out?

They may all be liars, but this is still new.
 
Yeah I agree with everyone that it is a novel concept that politicians should not lie.Trump is king now. I guess we should let him lie and not call him on it. Freaking hypocrite.

Trump.

"My healthcare will cover everyone".
The biggest cheer on the campaign trail when he said it. He also said in interviews He said it over and over again when talking about Obamacare. Fucking piece of shit. The first draft of the new American Healthcare plan from the GOP is not very good.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/15/politics/trump-obamacare/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapo...provide-insurance-for-everybody/#2e1a4557298d


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3375f271c9c_story.html?utm_term=.54949744c4b9


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...cement-will-have-insurance-for-everybody.html
 
I think the difference is that typical politician lies are things that are more difficult to prove to be lies. They require some kind of secret information to be leaked or they involve some technicality that makes a very misleading statement to be true. Trump says things like the rain stopped when it didn't, or one crowd was bigger than another crowd, or he had the biggest electoral win since Reagan, things that are easily shown to be wrong. And when he's corrected, he doubles down on the lie or just says he heard it somewhere. It's not just that isn't easily shown to be wrong, it's stupid stuff where there's no reason to lie about it. Why lose credibility to advance a story about when the sun came out?

They may all be liars, but this is still new.

It is really different only in the application. I truly think president Trump does not care what you or I think of his credibility. I think he does it to manipulate the media. Every time he tells a new whopper, their are media outlets falling all over themselves to be the first to declare the new lie, and then discuss it in debasing and biased ways for the next two to three news cycles, only to be replaced by next whopper of a lie that he tells. You may think he is that stupid (and that is your right to have such an opinion), but my gut is telling me he knows way more than he is letting on. Doesn't make him right or even close to an honest person - but it does distract long enough for the next piece of his agenda to be put forth.

Bash him all you want, their are times when I do also, but if you think our (or the media's) bashing is ever going to stop him from telling the next one, I think we are sadly mistaken.
 
It is really different only in the application. I truly think president Trump does not care what you or I think of his credibility. I think he does it to manipulate the media. Every time he tells a new whopper, their are media outlets falling all over themselves to be the first to declare the new lie, and then discuss it in debasing and biased ways for the next two to three news cycles, only to be replaced by next whopper of a lie that he tells. You may think he is that stupid (and that is your right to have such an opinion), but my gut is telling me he knows way more than he is letting on. Doesn't make him right or even close to an honest person - but it does distract long enough for the next piece of his agenda to be put forth.

Bash him all you want, their are times when I do also, but if you think our (or the media's) bashing is ever going to stop him from telling the next one, I think we are sadly mistaken.

Can I think he knows it's a media distraction AND he's a stupid liar? Cause I do.

What I mean by that is I think he both knows the effect that he will have by arguing over 'stupid stuff' that will distract the media, so he exaggerates to the point of being wrong with the intent of keeping the media too busy to go after things that really matter, and at the same time, he actually cares about this BS and how popular he is.
 
Serious as a fart - if, of course, you consider the source. :*)

My answer was totally in response to the complete hysteria that is lately associated with Trumps lies.

Maybe this will help - yeah, not cool that the nutcase in the Whitehouse is a liar.

. . . but Hillary lied more. Nyah! Nyah!

It's sad that Trump is so bad that we hold him to the standard of terrible politicians like Hillary Clinton that never even held the office. Sad!
 
Last edited:
It's sad that Trump is so bad that we hold him to the standard of terrible politicians like Hillary Clinton that never even held the office. Sad!

It is sad, but there is a reasonable amount of blame to go around for why this has occurred.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Analyze truly what has been done to you personally in the first 40+ days due to all the antics.

I am sad and ashamed, too, but if those were the only negative emotions we are left with when he is gone, we aren't really doing all that bad are we?

In terms of what could go wrong, and may yet go wrong, the current stuff is pretty benign. Remember I am not asking for him not be bashed - he deserves every bashing he gets, but I am looking for the actual real things that have happened to affect my life. When I analyze, I find that there aren't all that many that affect, determine, or change my values as they apply to my family, my faith, or my home - the most important things to me.

It is this kind of thing that I argue with . . .
"Why should we get stuck with the stupidest most arrogant asshole I have ever known as our president?"

We got stuck because there was just enough people that believed he was just the opposite of those things. If calling him names makes you feel better -have at it, it is your right as an American, but for whatever reason, DT holds the highest office in the land. If he fails as badly as some of you believe he will, you may think it would get better, but truly we all fail in ways we haven't even imagined yet.
 
That guy died?

I'm pretty sure I've heard the guy on radio telling the story of his interactions with Trump.

yeah, I had heard him too. Sometime during the campaign people started publicizing his initial coverage of Fred and Donald Trump's real estate antics in the Village Voice, and later his biography & then they started having him on to discuss it.

Isn't the timing something? it was literally the day before the inauguration. Like he said "no way I want to live to see this dipshit actually become president."
 
It is really different only in the application. I truly think president Trump does not care what you or I think of his credibility. I think he does it to manipulate the media. Every time he tells a new whopper, their are media outlets falling all over themselves to be the first to declare the new lie, and then discuss it in debasing and biased ways for the next two to three news cycles, only to be replaced by next whopper of a lie that he tells. You may think he is that stupid (and that is your right to have such an opinion), but my gut is telling me he knows way more than he is letting on. Doesn't make him right or even close to an honest person - but it does distract long enough for the next piece of his agenda to be put forth.

Bash him all you want, their are times when I do also, but if you think our (or the media's) bashing is ever going to stop him from telling the next one, I think we are sadly mistaken.

I don't think anyone here thinks bashing Trump will get him to stop lying. Where did you get that idea from? he's a pathological liar. he'll be sitting there lying regardless of how people react to him.

maybe there is a method to his madness (on occasion)... or maybe he's just a pathological liar. like gulo said, no reason both can't be true.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Analyze truly what has been done to you personally in the first 40+ days due to all the antics.
That's not a very Christian way of looking at it. I mean thousands of people - regular people, not criminals, even if they aren't white Americans like you or I - have been affected by his decisions.

thousands were held up from seeing family members (or returning home) because of his immigration order. some may never see family members again.

Entire families were torn apart in the extensive ICE raids he ordered. Plenty of stories in the media right now of long time illegal (but not criminal) residents who work hard & pay taxes, and raised kids born here that are now being sent home - or locked up in for-profit prisons and made to work for free. their kids will become wards of the state.

he ordered that raid in Yemen that left a SEAL dead, and a dozen or so Yemeni citizens, most of whom were children, dead.

just off the top of my head...

he's spent a significant amount of time golfing and glad-handing sleezy rich fucks at his gaudy Florida resort, costing taxpayers excessive amounts of money, as he promotes membership as a way to get access to his office, and even more troubling to foreign officials he's meeting with. Using his office and our tax dollars to benefit him personally. To the extent members are foreign citizens or officials, this is (another) blatant violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution.

You could argue that violating our constitution is not a personal insult from the president, though that seems a bit hypocritical coming from a right winger like you just because a Republican is in the white house again.

... When I analyze, I find that there aren't all that many that affect, determine, or change my values as they apply to my family, my faith, or my home - the most important things to me.

...

sure, using a selective reading of what your faith teaches, I suppose.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That's not a very Christian way of looking at it. I mean thousands of people - regular people, not criminals, even if they aren't white Americans like you or I - have been affected by his decisions.

thousands were held up from seeing family members (or returning home) because of his immigration order. some may never see family members again.

Entire families were torn apart in the extensive ICE raids he ordered. Plenty of stories in the media right now of long time illegal (but not criminal) residents who work hard & pay taxes, and raised kids born here that are now being sent home - or locked up in for-profit prisons and made to work for free. their kids will become wards of the state.

he ordered that raid in Yemen that left a SEAL dead, and a dozen or so Yemeni citizens, most of whom were children, dead.

just off the top of my head...

he's spent a significant amount of time golfing and glad-handing sleezy rich fucks at his gaudy Florida resort, costing taxpayers excessive amounts of money, as he promotes membership as a way to get access to his office, and even more troubling to foreign officials he's meeting with. Using his office and our tax dollars to benefit him personally. To the extent members are foreign citizens or officials, this is (another) blatant violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution.

You could argue that violating our constitution is not a personal insult from the president, though that seems a bit hypocritical coming from a right winger like you just because a Republican is in the white house again.



sure, using a selective reading of what your faith teaches, I suppose.

At least half of what you describe is not happening due to something Donald Trump has done. Families are not being torn apart any more right this moment than they have been before. If you site anecdotal evidence from the Huffington Post, you lose most of your credibility with your espoused incredulity.

. . . and spending tax payers money? Show me a comparison for every politician that shows DT is wasting any more than the average president. Lying is wrong, wasting taxpayer money is wrong, using the executive power for political gains is wrong, but why the complete hysteria now? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact you hate the man.

Give me a break, considering how most of that is specifically affecting me has nothing to do my Christian values. It isn't racist, it isn't overblown pomp, it is what is most important to me. Tell me that if there is some policy specifically affecting your family, that wouldn't be the highest thing on your list to do something about? This holier-than-thou elitist attitude that you know better what should be most important to me is complete crap.

Lastly, violating the constitution is pure conjecture and it only matters when something you care about is threatening to violate it. Things like the electoral college, illegal search and seizure as it applies to your enemies, etc should mean that the Constitution is a living breathing document so people like you can bend it to what they believe is the right thing to do. It is only wrong where something you don't like is concerned - damn if an enemy violates something in there - OMG it is a fucking nightmare.

It is fake outrage, and unbelievable hypocrisy that boils my blood.

Spare me your indignation at what I posted.
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Analyze truly what has been done to you personally in the first 40+ days due to all the antics.

I'm a middle age white person. Much like over half the country, I'm good, and barring a catastrophic event will continue to be. So by that logic, I can't get mad/excited by what the president does/doesn't do?

In terms of what could go wrong, and may yet go wrong, the current stuff is pretty benign. Remember I am not asking for him not be bashed - he deserves every bashing he gets, but I am looking for the actual real things that have happened to affect my life. When I analyze, I find that there aren't all that many that affect, determine, or change my values as they apply to my family, my faith, or my home - the most important things to me.

I find it hard to believe you had it so bad under Obama or any other president using that criteria and I've seen you bash him. I don't think Obama was that great but I don't think you can have it both ways.

It is this kind of thing that I argue with . . .
"Why should we get stuck with the stupidest most arrogant asshole I have ever known as our president?"

We got stuck because there was just enough people that believed he was just the opposite of those things. If calling him names makes you feel better -have at it, it is your right as an American, but for whatever reason, DT holds the highest office in the land. If he fails as badly as some of you believe he will, you may think it would get better, but truly we all fail in ways we haven't even imagined yet.

I agree with this part. I stay away from the debates/arguments over his demeanor. It's pointless. He is acting like the guy that was elected, he hasn't changed. At some point his antics need to be ignored (perhaps not entirely) and shouldn't come before debate on policy.

I do not want him to fail to the point of impeachment. I can't see how that would do more good than harm. I want him to succeed enough so that the country doesn't have some devastating event, but I do want him to fail enough so that he doesn't get a second term and his environmental, social, and foreign policies don't fuck the country any harder than a 2nd term would.
 
At least half of what you describe is not happening due to something Donald Trump has done. Families are not being torn apart any more right this moment than they have been before. If you site anecdotal evidence from the Huffington Post, you lose most of your credibility with your espoused incredulity.

. . . and spending tax payers money? Show me a comparison for every politician that shows DT is wasting any more than the average president. Lying is wrong, wasting taxpayer money is wrong, using the executive power for political gains is wrong, but why the complete hysteria now? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact you hate the man.

Give me a break, considering how most of that is specifically affecting me has nothing to do my Christian values. It isn't racist, it isn't overblown pomp, it is what is most important to me. Tell me that if there is some policy specifically affecting your family, that wouldn't be the highest thing on your list to do something about? This holier-than-thou elitist attitude that you know better what should be most important to me is complete crap.

Lastly, violating the constitution is pure conjecture and it only matters when something you care about is threatening to violate it. Things like the electoral college, illegal search and seizure as it applies to your enemies, etc should mean that the Constitution is a living breathing document so people like you can bend it to what they believe is the right thing to do. It is only wrong where something you don't like is concerned - damn if an enemy violates something in there - OMG it is a fucking nightmare.

It is fake outrage, and unbelievable hypocrisy that boils my blood.

Spare me your indignation at what I posted.

Deportations had been declining under Obama, and since 2013, ICE raids had been directed to focus on illegal immigrants involved in criminal activity.

raids have increased under Trump, and there is no focus on criminal activity; indeed accounts exist of them being general sweeps aimed at rounding up anyone here without a green card or visa. There's been a lot written about this, beyond the pages of the HuffPo. Just google "Trump + ICE + raids." Trump's press secretary, I think or Homeland security guy made the ominous comment that they wanted to "take the chains off ICE" implying they could raid and detain, without worrying about proving it in court. that's a police state; that's not America. at least not the America I want to live in.

as far as spending tax dollars... assuming he keeps spending weekends at his resort, and housing his wife in NYC so he has to spend as little time with her as possible (just like he did with his previous wives) he's easily on pace to blow way past what we spent on security for Obama very soon into his term. link.

I doubt a guy like Trump is concerned about spending in this context... someone else (taxpayers) are on the hook for something he controls for his own benefit. this is a recipe for disaster.

and violating the emoluments clause of the Constitution is not speculation... he's done this and a number of lawsuits have been filed against him. so far, no
impeachment proceedings, but what do you expect when the GOP controls Congress and Trump has remained in near lockstep agreement with them?

every time he squeezes a foreign government to expedite a hotel or condo building with his name on it, everytime he hosts a diplomatic event at the Mar a lago, or has a foreign government hold a convention at his hotel in DC, he's violated the Constitution. that happened. its not a debate, and its only "up for interpretation" if you can't understand English.

he could've avoided these ethical issues if he had sold his assets and put the funds in a blind trust, but he refused to do that because the finances of the Trump Organization are obviously more important to him than his job as President of the United States. priorities.

and for the record, I am totally calm. I don't have a "holier-than-thou" attitude. I'm an atheist. You're the one who brought his own religion into it, and claimed nothing Trump has done concerns his faith. That seems a little hypocritical to me.
 
I'm a middle age white person. Much like over half the country, I'm good, and barring a catastrophic event will continue to be. So by that logic, I can't get mad/excited by what the president does/doesn't do?

I apologize if that is what you got out of my post. You can get mad and excitedly bash all you want. I'm pointing at the people losing their minds with the hysterical level of 11 over the hatred professed, yet really not being all that poorly affected yet. Not that it won't happen, but things that have occurred do not warrant the ridiculous vitriol.

I find it hard to believe you had it so bad under Obama or any other president using that criteria and I've seen you bash him. I don't think Obama was that great but I don't think you can have it both ways.

I plan ahead and did not have it so bad. My criticism of Obama never reached the offensive level that I read here about every action the president has ever taken.

I agree with this part. I stay away from the debates/arguments over his demeanor. It's pointless. He is acting like the guy that was elected, he hasn't changed. At some point his antics need to be ignored (perhaps not entirely) and shouldn't come before debate on policy.

I do not want him to fail to the point of impeachment. I can't see how that would do more good than harm. I want him to succeed enough so that the country doesn't have some devastating event, but I do want him to fail enough so that he doesn't get a second term and his environmental, social, and foreign policies don't fuck the country any harder than a 2nd term would.

I also think this attitude is perfectly logical and understood based on what we have seen so far and it doesn't meet the complete hypocrisy and hysterical level that I am talking about.

I don't know about you, but sometimes I just get tired of the complete lack of respect people show the office of POTUS, but I guess that is a discussion for another thread.
 
Last edited:
its not a debate, and its only "up for interpretation" if you can't understand English.

Says the opposition. I guess all Republicans can't understand English? Very stupid thing to post.

I don't have a "holier-than-thou" attitude. I'm an atheist.

I literally laughed out loud for this one. Holier-than-thou is a colloquial for you thinking you have the moral high ground and really doesn't have anything to do with religion. Typical

You're the one who brought his own religion into it, and claimed nothing Trump has done concerns his faith. That seems a little hypocritical to me.

I don't get this one at all. I didn't say your most important priorities include faith. I said look at your own top 3, and then tell me how those are affected, and then look at the complete vitriol over every one of those other things you keep mentioning over and over. There is a disconnect there.

How in God's name did you ever make the jump to a little hypocritical? I think I have made clear I'm not all that happy with Trump as president, but I don't lose my head over this huge majority of things that would not come near even my top ten things to get all up in arms about.

. . . and BTW that includes your emoluments clause. I'm pretty sure this is only an issue because you hate the man. Had HRC or Obama had the same level of bad constitutional judgment, you would be making excuses, justifying, or explaining how it doesn't apply. As long as the call for impeachment is consistent, I have no complaint. Otherwise, that is the definition of hypocrisy, something I'm not sure you have a firm grasp of based on your leap above.
 
Last edited:
...

. . . and BTW that includes your emoluments clause. I'm pretty sure this is only an issue because you hate the man. Had HRC or Obama had the same level of bad constitutional judgment, you would be making excuses, justifying, or explaining how it doesn't apply. As long as the call for impeachment is consistent, I have no complaint. Otherwise, that is the definition of hypocrisy, something I'm not sure you have a firm grasp of based on your leap above.

Just wanted to respond to this part because it's confusing. I'm talking about something Trump ACTUALLY DID.

That's off the table because hypothetically if a democrat did the same thing, you think I'd try to argue it was okay? I guess no one is allowed to discuss politics here then...
 
Dnanald troomp isthe bst presindnt in the histrty of the united stats and anyone who thinsks otherwose is maoiran.
 
Back
Top