By:
Advanced search…

Welcome to Detroit Sports Forum!

By joining our community, you'll be able to connect with fellow fans that live and breathe Detroit sports just like you!

Get Started
  • If you are no longer able to access your account since our recent switch from vBulletin to XenForo, you may need to reset your password via email. If you no longer have access to the email attached to your account, please fill out our contact form and we will assist you ASAP. Thanks for your continued support of DSF.

Beilein's recruiting

H

hungry

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
12,106
JB gets a lot of flack for his recruiting. He supposedly only will recruit a certain type of player and misses out on a lot of higher ranked targets. Bob is famous around here for posting ad nauseum about why he wasn't able to translate his NCAA success a few years back into recruiting success.

There is a big, long discussion on JB recruiting over at mgoblog and I'm not going to go in that direction. They are wondering if this BTT run will have a profound effect on recruiting. I would bet not

Does JB really need to improve his recruiting? I mean, the players he recruited just won the BTT, right? That means these players that he recruited are good enough to compete in and win things in the big 10, right? He has 2 seniors that contribute (i'm not going to count Donnal,) he has a junior shooter that comes in from the bench that came from a d3 school (does this really count as recruiting, since he didn't bring this guy from high school?) He has Abdur-Rahkman a junior who sometimes starts and sometimes comes off the bench, MAAR is on a tear the last 10 games or so. Then he has 2 sophomore big men that are contributing big time. How often do sophomore big men make the contribution that these 2 are making?

Sorry for the horrible grammar, run on sentence thing, but this team is not an ideal JB team and they still won the BTT. We got on him for not developing these guys, but how much better should this team be at this point in their development? If he recruited a bunch of players that won the BTT, then does his recruiting need to improve? OR did he just prove that he recruits well enough?

Now he did have those misses from last season that mysteriously left the program. I was almost on board having DJ Wilson join them, but we see how that turned out. What do others think?
 
Yes, he does. This team, barring something miraculous, is not winning a national title or getting to the Final 4. I think he caught lightning in a bottle with the way things landed together for his 2013-2014 seasons, and since then the team has taken a relatively big step back.

In 2017 in college basketball, you won't compete regularly for titles without landing big time recruits. Imagine how much better this lineup would be with Tyus Battle out there starting and having MAAR be the 6th man?

Bottom line, you have to snag someone big, almost yearly to be a national program.
 
The team performs best when their star players rise to the occasion. See Burke in the 2013 NCAA tournament, Stauskas in 2014, and Walton in the BTT this year. Your odds of having a star player like that improve dramatically if you can bring in more talented recruits. Pretty simple. Can Xavier Simpson evolve into that type of player? Maybe, but until recently he was not looking like it. He still has time to come into his own though. Wagner and Wilson have made great strides as well.

We are letting a magical 5 day run cloud the fact that we still went 10-8 in the conference and were nowhere close to a conference championship. The team turned around when Walton awoke from his coma and he's gone after this year.

Also if Beilein can have some pretty decent success with the recruits he does bring in, then what's wrong with wishing for more? We could be an even stronger program than we already are. Maybe we start winning multiple conference championships and getting top 3 seeds in the dance etc. I want the program to move up, not stay where they are.

Over in East Lansing, Mark Dantonio doesn't bring in the highest rated recruiting classes, and for a while he was making it work anyway. But now it looks like without that top talent they will have a hard time staying with the elite of the Big Ten. I don't want that happening to Umich hoops.
 
dubbsco said:
Yes, he does. This team, barring something miraculous, is not winning a national title or getting to the Final 4. I think he caught lightning in a bottle with the way things landed together for his 2013-2014 seasons, and since then the team has taken a relatively big step back.

In 2017 in college basketball, you won't compete regularly for titles without landing big time recruits. Imagine how much better this lineup would be with Tyus Battle out there starting and having MAAR be the 6th man?

Bottom line, you have to snag someone big, almost yearly to be a national program.
Click to expand...

Are we talking about only competing for national titles? Do you think Purdue, Wisconsin, or Maryland needs to improve their recruiting? I mean, I don't know when those programs have competed for the national title.
 
UMRules06 said:
The team performs best when their star players rise to the occasion. See Burke in the 2013 NCAA tournament, Stauskas in 2014, and Walton in the BTT this year. Your odds of having a star player like that improve dramatically if you can bring in more talented recruits. Pretty simple. Can Xavier Simpson evolve into that type of player? Maybe, but until recently he was not looking like it. He still has time to come into his own though. Wagner and Wilson have made great strides as well.

We are letting a magical 5 day run cloud the fact that we still went 10-8 in the conference and were nowhere close to a conference championship. The team turned around when Walton awoke from his coma and he's gone after this year.

Also if Beilein can have some pretty decent success with the recruits he does bring in, then what's wrong with wishing for more? We could be an even stronger program than we already are. Maybe we start winning multiple conference championships and getting top 3 seeds in the dance etc. I want the program to move up, not stay where they are.

Over in East Lansing, Mark Dantonio doesn't bring in the highest rated recruiting classes, and for a while he was making it work anyway. But now it looks like without that top talent they will have a hard time staying with the elite of the Big Ten. I don't want that happening to Umich hoops.
Click to expand...

Well. Michigan was in pretty much every big 10 game they played in this year. Last year ,they got blown out in some games, as we all know. Michigan beat Purdue, the winner of the big 10, twice, and they beat 2nd place UW twice, as well. They really weren't that far off from "competing" well in the big 10.

For all of MSU's recruiting success, and they are pretty much the only big 10 team recruiting well, how did that go for them this year?

I know there are still games to be played and any big 10 team that is still in the tournament could go on a run.
 
Last edited:
I don't care if they were "in" the games. They went 10-8. That's mediocre. Yes they beat some good teams, and they lost to some bad teams also. What am I to make of that except that they were average/decent? They were better than last year yes, when they were one of the last teams in the dance and many argued they didn't even deserve their bid. So I agree they improved from last season. Now we need to make more steps forward.

MSU has made the tournament for like a billion straight years and gone to 7 Final Fours with a national title under Izzo. I think recruiting has a little something to do with that success but maybe I'm wrong.
 
I think Purdue and Maryland especially have a coach that has no clue how to take advantage of high-level recruits. I think Beilein has the Xs and Os ability to win national titles, but he never gives himself the opportunity because the recruits just never reach the upper eschelon in high school rankings.

Outside of a few cases, Michigan always seems to be an afterthought to the nation's best. That has to change.
 
UMRules06 said:
I don't care if they were "in" the games. They went 10-8. That's mediocre. Yes they beat some good teams, and they lost to some bad teams also. What am I to make of that except that they were average/decent? They were better than last year yes, when they were one of the last teams in the dance and many argued they didn't even deserve their bid. So I agree they improved from last season. Now we need to make more steps forward.

MSU has made the tournament for like a billion straight years and gone to 7 Final Fours with a national title under Izzo. I think recruiting has a little something to do with that success but maybe I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Well, I was referring to this season for MSU. Izzo's success over the course of his career at MSU is obvious to all.
 
Last edited:
UMRules06 said:
I don't care if they were "in" the games. They went 10-8. That's mediocre. Yes they beat some good teams, and they lost to some bad teams also. What am I to make of that except that they were average/decent? They were better than last year yes, when they were one of the last teams in the dance and many argued they didn't even deserve their bid. So I agree they improved from last season. Now we need to make more steps forward.

MSU has made the tournament for like a billion straight years and gone to 7 Final Fours with a national title under Izzo. I think recruiting has a little something to do with that success but maybe I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

I guess by saying they were in the games, shows to me that they can compete. It is disturbing that they started 14-9, but after that they went 10-2. i don't think it was just, because one player "woke up" and even if it is, JB recruited that player. I don't believe in "catching lightning in a bottle" or "magic" or "momentum from game to game." Michigan went 10-2 in their last 12 games, with 1 loss in OT @MN and the other loss on a last second shot @NW.

Perhaps, it took longer than an offseason to adjust to the new defensive scheme that Donlan brought in. Perhaps it took them until halfway into the season to develop and start playing that well.

Michigan won the games they won, because they played better than their opponent. They didn't win by magic or because God blessed them after their harrowing escape from an airplane crash or any such other nonsense.
 
Nobody is saying the team sucks or that Beilein is an awful coach. Clearly neither of those are true. The question is what do we want the program to be? If we're satisfied with finishing middle of the pack, and being competitive then yeah we're doing just fine. If we want to be mentioned among the blue bloods and elite programs of the world, then you need stars and you need accomplishments beyond what we have accomplished.

I want bigger and better things for Michigan. That will be hard to do without landing top talent that's all.
 
Well, I think we would all love for JB's recruiting to improve. For all we know, maybe it already has with next season's class.

If this team could've competed all season as they did the last 12 games, who knows what might've been.

I'm just wondering if it "needs" to or if it is a scheme thing or a development thing, maybe.

is it even possible for him to improve Michigan's recruiting? I think that is a good question, also.
 
We were all pissed after losing back to back games to Msu and osu in the same fashion. A crappy osu team at home out rebounded us 42-24. With 16 freaking offensive rebounds. It was so frustrating that we were manhandled on the glass and only loss the game by 4 freaking points. This gets me to the second part. If Simpson or Watson averaged 5-10 points a game we would have 5+ more wins. I am just frustrated That jb did not parlay that national title game run into more impact recurits. I do not feel I am alone in this regard on this board. Toughness has been a issue at times with jb's teams.

Also I have called myself out incase you missed it. JB and his staff do do a remarkable job at finding and developing gems. I just want more I guess . 1 freshmen who could score this year would have made a huge difference .I do think Simpson Will Be Fine Next sesson. He has had a few moments . The team finally started competing on defense after that loss and turned it around. For better or worse jb is not going anywhere so I do hope he keeps this assistant coach who has helped the team on defense. I hope everyone comes back and Livers and the other recurits can really make a difference next season. It would just be cool from time to time to land a real difference maker. For crying out loud we are Michigan! !!!
Go blue !!!!
 
Last edited:
I hope he's able to land more top recruits with consistency but only if he can do so without lowering his standards. And with JB, I'd be shocked if he were to do that. I haven't been this happy with B-ball since the FAB-5 and that was short lived and way too costly to the program. Lots of exciting times and very few problems. It's just been frustrating to get so close to the top and then take a bit of a tumble. I think we're back on the rise again though.
 
bdtay71 said:
I hope he's able to land more top recruits with consistency but only if he can do so without lowering his standards. And with JB, I'd be shocked if he were to do that. I haven't been this happy with B-ball since the FAB-5 and that was short lived and way too costly to the program. Lots of exciting times and very few problems. It's just been frustrating to get so close to the top and then take a bit of a tumble. I think we're back on the rise again though.
Click to expand...
The Fab 5 wasn't the problem. One player on the Fab 5 was plus Bullock, Taylor, and Traylor.

I'm sorry, but I'm so sick of Juwan, Jalen, Jimmy, and Ray getting shit on for the sanctions.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 
biggunsbob said:
We were all pissed after losing back to back games to Msu and osu in the same fashion. A crappy osu team at home out rebounded us 42-24. With 16 freaking offensive rebounds. It was so frustrating that we were manhandled on the glass and only loss the game by 4 freaking points. This gets me to the second part. If Simpson or Watson averaged 5-10 points a game we would have 5+ more wins. I am just frustrated That jb did not parlay that national title game run into more impact recurits. I do not feel I am alone in this regard on this board. Toughness has been a issue at times with jb's teams.

Also I have called myself out incase you missed it. JB and his staff do do a remarkable job at finding and developing gems. I just want more I guess . 1 freshmen who could score this year would have made a huge difference .I do think Simpson Will Be Fine Next sesson. He has had a few moments . The team finally started competing on defense after that loss and turned it around. For better or worse jb is not going anywhere so I do hope he keeps this assistant coach who has helped the team on defense. I hope everyone comes back and Livers and the other recurits can really make a difference next season. It would just be cool from time to time to land a real difference maker. For crying out loud we are Michigan! !!!
Go blue !!!!
Click to expand...

I agree with ya, Bob. I just singled you out, because you've posted that like 1,000 times lol.

I'm just wondering if it's the recruiting or does/did JB just need to get his players playing better.

Back to the Battle recruitment. I don't know what Michigan could've done better there. I think a lot of people thought Battle was coming to MIchigan. Then at the last second he chose to go to Syracuse in the face of their NCAA scandal. We see how that went for them/him this season, though.
 
"needs to recruit better" is a strong phrase. How about we just say "it would really be helpful if he recruited better"? Again if we can do fairly decent things with the level of recruits we currently have, think how much better we would be if we had more skilled players on the roster? That is what is frustrating.

The less skilled/talented the player is, the more time it takes to develop/coach that player into a position where they can really make a positive impact on the game. The two go hand in hand. We've seen some players the have developed well in Wagner and Wilson, and others not so much (Irvin, Robinson, Donnal). That's just guys on this year's roster off the top of my head. There's a reason Robinson can't be "developed" into much more than what he already was, and that's because he's just not that good overall.

So yes if we land better recruits it helps everything in my opinion. We don't necessarily "need" to, but I think it's fair to criticize JB for it if we continue to remain average.
 
I think everyone not named Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, and Arizona and a couple of others that of late have torn it up on the recruiting trail would like to recruit better. In this age of One and Dones you have to approach it carefully. Kentucky and Duke are able to sign so many One and Done talents and they can create instant National title contenders out of it. But they are Duke and Kentucky. At other times sometimes it's a bit detrimental. You put so much into landing that one big fish that the rest of the class suffers. We had a couple years back trying to land those big Chicago recruits. Didn't get them and then who were we left with? Javon Bess and Marvin Clark, who were average at best and transferred and Tum Tum Nairn who is also very average at best. And even if you do get that one big talent, that kid has a nice statistical year but maybe doesn't impact the team a ton and then is off to the NBA leaving you right back where you started unless you are really developing the other players.


I think signing a number of kids ranked in that 25 to 75 range nationally is a good way to go. The one program that has impressed over the years with how they develop their players is Notre Dame. Mike Brey doesn't get enough credit. They are not signing big-time High School talent but they are a fixture now in the Top 25 even though it hasn't resulted in a Final 4 for them yet. Beilein isn't far off for any of those types of standards.
 
Last edited:
MSUMatt28 said:
I think everyone not named Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, and Arizona and a couple of others that of late have torn it up on the recruiting trail would like to recruit better. In this age of One and Dones you have to approach it carefully. Kentucky and Duke are able to sign so many One and Done talents and they can create instant National title contenders out of it. But they are Duke and Kentucky. At other times sometimes it's a bit detrimental. You put so much into landing that one big fish that the rest of the class suffers. We had a couple years back trying to land those big Chicago recruits. Didn't get them and then who were we left with? Javon Bess and Marvin Clark, who were average at best and transferred and Tum Tum Nairn who is also very average at best. And even if you do get that one big talent, that kid has a nice statistical year but maybe doesn't impact the team a ton and then is off to the NBA leaving you right back where you started unless you are really developing the other players.


I think signing a number of kids ranked in that 25 to 75 range nationally is a good way to go. The one program that has impressed over the years with how they develop their players is Notre Dame. Mike Brey doesn't get enough credit. They are not signing big-time High School talent but they are a fixture now in the Top 25 even though it hasn't resulted in a Final 4 for them yet. Beilein isn't far off for any of those types of standards.
Click to expand...

Great post! Highlighting the dangers of recruiting too well.
 
thewolverines24 said:
The Fab 5 wasn't the problem. One player on the Fab 5 was plus Bullock, Taylor, and Traylor.

I'm sorry, but I'm so sick of Juwan, Jalen, Jimmy, and Ray getting shit on for the sanctions.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I agree with you wholeheartedly. The intent of my post wasn't meant to bag on those guys. I was just trying to emphasize that I appreciate what JB has done with the program in every aspect. I don't mean to suggest that he doesn't recruit more top level recruits because they're all potential problem children. But I know there are specific things he looks for in recruits and their character is a big part of that. I think it's also within reason to say that we haven't seen too many problem children in the program. Another thing I like about our teams under JB is when we've gone to the big dance we've almost always represented respectably and there have been some pretty damn exciting moments over JB's tenure. Some were definitely heart breaking but all in all, I feel pretty satisfied. I also feel hopeful that we haven't reached our peak under JB. Either way, I'll remember JB as the best coach UM B-ball has had since maybe before I was born.
 
And I don't think it's an issue of Belein targeting the wrong guys, he just needs to finish. Imagine this team with Kennard, bluiett, and battle. Hopefully the new blood in the coaching staff will help the cause
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

About Us

Founded in 2011, Detroit Sports Forum is a community of fanatics dedicated to teams like the Lions, Tigers, Pistons, Red Wings, Wolverines, and more. We live and breathe Detroit sports!

Stay Connected

Forum statistics

Threads
32,896
Messages
1,109,093
Members
942
Latest member
Proud Pheasant

Affiliates

    Discussion Hub
Back
Top