Ending Marijuana prohibition

Spartanmack · Jul 31, 2014

Sbee said:
also, I read a few years ago that the production cost of pot is similar to any spice, basil, oregano, etc. all the cost people pay is for smuggling

Hell, this might give mexican gangs less reason to murder each other. US drug demand is the main cause of the border crisis and the wars in Mexico

There's certainly a premium for smuggling, but a big chunk of the price is profit - that's why they're killing each other afterall.

As far as taking the gangs out of the equation, it depends on how much the tax is. Washington levies three separate 25% taxes along the supply chain (producer to processor, processor to retailer, retailer to consumer). Compounded, and assuming 0 profit markup for the processor and retailer, that's a 95% markup just in taxes. If you assume each link in the chain makes just 10% gross profit, dope that cost $100 to produce will cost the consumer $250. Plenty of incentive for the cartels to keep killing each other. Then of course, there's still cocaine, heroine, crystal meth, ecstasy...

Cue michchamp jumping up and down and posting an article from some leftist blog that doesn't disprove anything I've said because he thinks I oppose legalizing marijuana when I haven't indicated which side I'm on...

Thumb · Jul 31, 2014

Sbee said:
drug of choice with less harmful side effects

That's very debatable.

You mention drinking, but harmful side effects only occur when it's done in excess. Several studies have shown that consuming alcohol in moderation is actually beneficial.

Now with Marijuana, many people can't afford to consume in excess, either because of cost, or because of the fact it's illegal. But Joint smoke has 4 times the Tar as cigarette smoke, making it 4 times as likely to lead to lung cancer if you could smoke it without restriction. THC also has been linked to very high risk of ED (erectile dysfunction) in men, I'd say that's a pretty serious side effect. Also it increases risk for psychotic disorders like Schizophrenia.

Now we all know drunk driving is a problem, but stoned driving is as well. Now imagine combining the two.

turok · Jul 31, 2014

I imagine the contact buzzes that self-professed drug and alcohol-abstaining rock artists such as Ted Nugent, Paul Stanley. and Gene Simmons must have been annoying and irritating, despite performing songs such as Journey To The Center Of The Mind, Cold Gin, and Detroit Rock City, but I would guess that they just saw Benjamins when they performed for their fans.

Mitchrapp · Jul 31, 2014

turok said:
It must have really sucked to attend rock concerts in the 70s-90s, huh? >

Ironically enough I saw Aerosmith twice and I don't remember anyone near me smoking pot. Long time ago and my memory is not good but I don't remember that. People screaming with lighters but nothing outrageous .. occasional fight though.

turok · Jul 31, 2014

Mitchrapp said:
Ironically enough I saw Aerosmith twice and I don't remember anyone near me smoking pot. Long time ago and my memory is not good but I don't remember that. People screaming with lighters but nothing outrageous .. occasional fight though.

My wife is a huge Aerosmith fan, and I took her to see them perform @ Joe Louis Arena on consecutive nights in '97 while we were still dating. By then smoking was prohibited inside the venue, IIRC. So although there were some groups of people nearby us who fired up joints, they were very careful to try to conceal it, else draw the attention of ushers/security.

Mitchrapp · Jul 31, 2014

turok said:
My wife is a huge Aerosmith fan, and I took her to see them perform @ Joe Louis Arena on consecutive nights in '97 while we were still dating. By then smoking was prohibited inside the venue, IIRC. So although there were some groups of people nearby us who fired up joints, they were very careful to try to conceal it, else draw the attention of ushers/security.

Don't remember the exact years but early 80's and then a couple years later. The first was awesome, the second was way too short..not near as good as the first. Both were at Joe Louis..

Worst concert I ever saw, JUDAS Priest. They were horrible..I was never a big fan but my buddy dragged me to it..

turok · Jul 31, 2014

Thumb said:
That's very debatable.

Now with Marijuana, many people can't afford to consume in excess, either because of cost, or because of the fact it's illegal. But Joint smoke has 4 times the Tar as cigarette smoke, making it 4 times as likely to lead to lung cancer if you could smoke it without restriction. THC also has been linked to very high risk of ED (erectile dysfunction) in men, I'd say that's a pretty serious side effect. Also it increases risk for psychotic disorders like Schizophrenia.

Now we all know drunk driving is a problem, but stoned driving is as well. Now imagine combining the two.

Oh yeah, I can attest to being waaay too stoned to perform in the sack on occasion, even when hooking up with some "strange" for a one night stand back in the day. I also used to cruise the main drags of the D, such as Gratiot and Woodward on non-winter weekends with the intention of getting high while doing so.

But once most street weed became much more potent by being grown chronic-hydroponic, I began to experience symptoms of shizoid thought afterwards, which I disliked, so I decided to quit partaking in pot smoking.

Sbee · Jul 31, 2014

Thumb said:
That's very debatable.

You mention drinking, but harmful side effects only occur when it's done in excess. Several studies have shown that consuming alcohol in moderation is actually beneficial.

Now with Marijuana, many people can't afford to consume in excess, either because of cost, or because of the fact it's illegal. But Joint smoke has 4 times the Tar as cigarette smoke, making it 4 times as likely to lead to lung cancer if you could smoke it without restriction. THC also has been linked to very high risk of ED (erectile dysfunction) in men, I'd say that's a pretty serious side effect. Also it increases risk for psychotic disorders like Schizophrenia.

Now we all know drunk driving is a problem, but stoned driving is as well. Now imagine combining the two.

if you laid out the side effects of alcohol and pot on a piece of paper and had to choose wich one you'd legalize, I'd be shocked if anyone chose alcohol

Spartanmack · Jul 31, 2014

so lay them out and let people choose - you can put it in a separate poll thread...

TheVictors · Jul 31, 2014

Gulo Blue · Jul 31, 2014

Sbee said:
if you laid out the side effects of alcohol and pot on a piece of paper and had to choose wich one you'd legalize, I'd be shocked if anyone chose alcohol

So what you're saying is we should make alcohol illegal...

Thumb · Jul 31, 2014

Sbee said:
if you laid out the side effects of alcohol and pot on a piece of paper and had to choose wich one you'd legalize, I'd be shocked if anyone chose alcohol

Of course you would be shocked, you're biased.

Michchamp · Jul 31, 2014

you don't have to smoke it to get high as shit. bake it into cookies or brownies.

Sbee · Aug 1, 2014

Thumb said:
Of course you would be shocked, you're biased.

The point is that it makes no sense to allow people to drink alcohol but then arrest 650k people a year for possession of marijuana.

I don't know if this is really even debatable. Also, you're saying I'm biased but I don't even smoke?

Spartanmack · Aug 1, 2014

Why does it not make sense to arrest someone for doing something that isn't legal? Are you sure you don't smoke? Because I'd like to say that sounds like the textbook definition of bias...

Also, presumably there will be a minimum age for consumption/possession so I'm sure at least some of those arrests would still be legitimate.

zyxt9 · Aug 1, 2014

Sbee said:
also, I read a few years ago that the production cost of pot is similar to any spice, basil, oregano, etc. all the cost people pay is for smuggling

Hell, this might give mexican gangs less reason to murder each other. US drug demand is the main cause of the border crisis and the wars in Mexico

ok, now this has to be the WORST argument in favor of legalizing pot.

do you honestly believe that pot being legalized will stop the Mexican drug cartels from continuing business as usual, both in terms of dealing illegal drugs and murdering people???

if pot is legalized, they would just move on to the other illegal drugs, heroin and cocaine being most likely, but my bet would actually be meth due to its lower cost on the front end and increased use driving up the value.

but let's take it a step further and say all illegal drugs were made legal, the cartels would still find other illegal activities to line their pockets with money and use as excuses to kill people...because that is what they do. granted their actions originated out of poverty, but it isn't like they are not flush with money now and decided they have made enough so they can stop and just live off their current wealth. they'd rather keep making more, just like any Wall Street type who made their wealth via insider trading...people like that just never stop doing their illegal activity until they are killed or arrested, but even then many continue doing illegal things from behind bars.

zyxt9 · Aug 1, 2014

turok said:
It must have really sucked to attend rock concerts in the 70s-90s, huh? >

add that to the list of reasons I have never been to a rock concert, but mostly it is due to my preference to not listen to the deviations from the known sounds that happen in a rock concert. just a personal preference, not a criticism. I do prefer an orchestras sound, so I get the preference of hearing the raw sound of the music, but orchestras do not typically change the music.

plus I find many rock stars raw voices to not be as appealing as their studio refined voice. maybe that is due to the second hand smoke from all the cigs and pot, or they are all liquored up, or...???

tinselwolverine · Aug 1, 2014

People still get stoned at classical music concerts when they're out in a park.

More often though classical music officianados will just put on a disc and get stoned at home.

Spartanmack · Aug 1, 2014

zyxt9 said:
ok, now this has to be the WORST argument in favor of legalizing pot.

do you honestly believe that pot being legalized will stop the Mexican drug cartels from continuing business as usual, both in terms of dealing illegal drugs and murdering people???

if pot is legalized, they would just move on to the other illegal drugs, heroin and cocaine being most likely, but my bet would actually be meth due to its lower cost on the front end and increased use driving up the value.

but let's take it a step further and say all illegal drugs were made legal, the cartels would still find other illegal activities to line their pockets with money and use as excuses to kill people...because that is what they do. granted their actions originated out of poverty, but it isn't like they are not flush with money now and decided they have made enough so they can stop and just live off their current wealth. they'd rather keep making more, just like any Wall Street type who made their wealth via insider trading...people like that just never stop doing their illegal activity until they are killed or arrested, but even then many continue doing illegal things from behind bars.

And per my earlier post, the taxes on legalized pot or other drugs create a significant arbitrage between legal market and black market prices giving the cartels plenty of room to operate profitably (and brutally) in legalized drugs...

Gulo Blue · Aug 1, 2014

michchamp said:
you don't have to smoke it to get high as shit. bake it into cookies or brownies.

So, I wonder if it needs to reach a certain temperature to activate. Maybe you could add it to the boil and brew it into beer and then we wouldn't have this issue of which was the more dangerous substance.

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