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The report on Gray trying to injure himself

Monster said:
100% agree with you. Thugs. Even if rioters aren't normally thugs, they are thugs in the moment. That goes for all races. Just like that kid whose mom beat him up on live TV.
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Effin' Boston Tea Party thugs.
 
Gulo Blue said:
Both exist. Nobody is disputing the advantages associated with having money, but the fact that it exists doesn't mean there isn't also additional challenges associated with being black.

Are you aware of the studies on the issue or do you just reject them?
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I'm not rejecting that racism exists. I'm saying that being white does not automatically give you an advantage. In those studies, were the employers white or black? Were they high income or middle income or lower income jobs? There is something to be said for hiring what you know. A black employer may hire a black candidate who has an equal resume just because he can relate to him more. Same with white people. Is that right? I don't know, but it is human nature. When all things are equal, we stick with what we know.

How would the study have turned out if the black sounding names had superior resumes? Would the white employers have skipped them for lesser employees? I would think that'd be a much better story. The sample size is much too small as well.
 
Monster said:
How would the study have turned out if the black sounding names had superior resumes? Would the white employers have skipped them for lesser employees? I would think that'd be a much better story. The sample size is much too small as well.
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This part is actually in the study. It looks like a black sounding name + 8 years experience is about equivalent to a white sounding name.

And how big a study would you need to find it to be significant? 5,000 resumes isn't exactly tiny.
 
Monster said:
I'm not rejecting that racism exists.
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If you don't reject this, then what's the issue? The claim of white privileged isn't that life is easy for all white people, it's just the claim that white people don't face the same degree of discrimination black people do. It's just a different way of talking about it.
 
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michchamp said:
Well, surprised is not the right word. I do think - despite the reasoning for the riot being different -that the coverage is fundamentally different. no media outlets ever make the logical leap from sports riots to greater cultural or community issues. the link that perhaps sports-fandom is overblown and cities need to stop catering to pro sports franchises, etc. ... you never hear that. but when it's a riot like in the case of Baltimore, you do hear about a "lack of accountability" from that community, doubting the sincerity of the reasons for the riot by focusing on the looting/property damage aspect of it.

I suppose what would end this disagreement is a study of the number of arrests, coverage, etc. after a sports riot that involved a majority of African Americans vs. one that involved mostly whites, like an NHL championship. I remember reading about how the 1984 riots in Detroit after the Tigers won were seen as an example of how far Detroit had fallen under Coleman Young (i.e. under black leadership). someone could take the time to pull coverage of sports riots and see what weasel words make their way in to describe them, depending on the racial makeup of those rioting, or "celebrating" ... as the case may be.
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Sports riots...yes, they don't get as much coverage. I believe I've already said that the coverage wasn't equal. News media reports what brings big ratings. Blacks rioting in the streets...big ratings. Blacks being killed by cops...big ratings (though this is a recent revelation). White people who are let off the hook and not killed or beaten...big ratings.

Ratings is the only thing that matters to these idiots. They care about nothing else.
 
I'm sure someone will start a thread about this, but six officers are being charged with crimes in the death of Freddie Gray, which has been ruled a homicide.
 
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tinselwolverine said:
I'm sure someone will start a thread about this, but six officers are being charged with crimes in the death of Freddie Gray, which has been ruled a homicide.
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Well, let's wait until all the facts are out, AKA, the Baltimore PD has enough time to find a "witness" who reports Gray breaking his own neck before the officers savagely beat him and throw him in the van, then automatically assume the Baltimore PD is right, and police discrimination and violence against minorities isn't really a thing.
 
Monster said:
I'm not rejecting that racism exists. I'm saying that being white does not automatically give you an advantage. ...
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Okay, you officially replace Red as the Crown Prince of Arguing Semantics on this board.

What do you mean, "automatically give you an advantage?"

No, of course, you still have to apply for a job... they don't just hand you anything for being white.

it's just that you're statistically more likely to get the job than any African American applicants based on race alone.

and you're less likely to be the victim of police harassment and violence. and if you do get arrested and charged with a crime, you're more likely to be sentenced to prison. and good luck rehabilitating your life after going through that...

and your parents and grandparents were more likely to have access to a gov't back home loan, ensuring that you grew up in a safe neighborhood, with decent schools.

So yes, when you take away all that context, you're correct: there's no advantage to being white....
 
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michchamp said:
Well, let's wait until all the facts are out, AKA, the Baltimore PD has enough time to find a "witness" who reports Gray breaking his own neck before the officers savagely beat him and throw him in the van, then automatically assume the Baltimore PD is right, and police discrimination and violence against minorities isn't really a thing.
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And the reporter who first mentioned the medical and autopsy findings that said it was not self inflicted, had an agenda remember?

Angry Little Man soon to step in and make a series of posts on the subject, and then after a little while a series of edits.
 
michchamp said:
ah, so he severed his own spinal cord... seems plausible.
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Yeah, I was rolling my eyes while reading that claim too. It would be damn difficult to do that by yourself, short of jumping from a high place, IMO. Would love to see the cops try demonstrating how it is possible. Not saying it is impossible, but to sever the spinal cord in a way that results in death as opposed to just paralysis, and thinking you could actually kill yourself by doing it...just doesn't add up to me.

Yes, champ...I am actually agreeing with you here....for now. ;P
 
Monster said:
It's absolutely not a thing. There is a such thing as Money Privilege, though. We need to stop making excuses for people. Stop telling black people that they are victims. It's not just black people that are poor and undereducated.

And saying it's white insecurity is far from the truth. If you knew anything about my life, you'd probably feel sorry for me. Everything has been against me since the day I was born. I've never been given a hand up and I've had to work my ass off to have the life I have now. I'm not rich and not poor. I have a good family and a great life. Nobody handed it to me.

While I watched other friends be handed brand new cars for their birthdays and free educations, my first car was a 10 year old Chevy (that I bought on a McDonald's paycheck at 18 years old) and college was an absolute impossibility.

So yeah, it's definitely not insecurity. It's me, sitting here, knowing from experience that the only privilege out there comes with dollar signs attached.

I do know that we need to take better care of our poor. That's a fact.
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I agree with you. Money privilege has much more of an influence than white privilege.

Based on your description I've probably had some similar experiences in life to you growing up. I didn't have much going for me either.

That said, I still fully acknowledge that I was given at least some advantages by being a white male as opposed to a racial minority. Just walking in for a job opening and having the white manager see my white face would be one.
 
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Thumb said:
And the reporter who first mentioned the medical and autopsy findings that said it was not self inflicted, had an agenda remember?

Angry Little Man soon to step in and make a series of posts on the subject, and then after a little while a series of edits.
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And this disproves that how? I seem to recall your quote of the piece saying:

Thumb said:
The reporter also noted that the unidentified prisoner has a "number of years" hanging over his head and has given two different accounts of events that night.
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I'm sure you're aware that the unidentified prisoner has been identified and it has been revealed that he was arrested for stealing a cigarette, makes no mention of any prior warrants or any prior criminal history. So, how many years does a guy have hanging over his head for stealing a cigarette?

You also highlighted this passage

Thumb said:
According to the document, the prisoner told investigators that Gray was "banging against walls" inside the vehicle and was "intentionally trying to injure himself."

WBAL-TV, however, reports that its investigation showed no evidence to support the second prisoner's claim.

Investigative reporter Jane Miller told MSNBC on Thursday that medical evidence — from the hospital and an autopsy — found that Gray died of a single severe spinal injury resulting from a broken neck.

Miller said the medical evidence does not support a claim that Gray had been banging his head against the van wall.
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If the witness couldn't see, then how do we know the noise he heard was him "banging his head against the wall" and if the medical report evidence doesn't support the claim that he was banging his head against the wall, does it support the claim that he was severely beaten by police?

Also, these are charges, not convictions. There's still very little available in terms of evidence. But I guess you think that's enough to prove investigative reporter Miller didn't have an agenda - even though it seems likely that she did.

I can almost hear you now..."Mom! MEATLOAF!! FUCK!! and a new keyboard!! FUUUUCCCCCCK". So angry.

EDIT: Just wanted to throw in a quick edit to see if I could make your head explode again. Editing - the new racism.
 
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Spartanmack said:
But I guess you think that's enough to prove investigative reporter Miller didn't have an agenda - even though it seems likely that she did.
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That's what I like about you little buddy, you're persistent. You are going to ride that horse right up to the steps of the glue factory, whether or not it makes any sense at all or not.
 
Thumb said:
That's what I like about you little buddy, you're persistent. You are going to ride that horse right up to the steps of the glue factory, whether or not it makes any sense at all or not.
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good one. usually it takes you much longer to realize you're in over your head and resort to this nonsense. You're learning.
 
Spartanmack said:
good one. usually it takes you much longer to realize you're in over your head and resort to this nonsense. You're learning.
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Well it took you 3 days to respond to the last post, and you still haven't explained this "agenda" the reporter has. I mean you keep bringing up how the prisoner having time hanging over his head is all speculation, then do the exact same thing about Millers "agenda".

Monkey see, monkey do I guess.
 
Thumb said:
Well it took you 3 days to respond to the last post, and you still haven't explained this "agenda" the reporter has. I mean you keep bringing up how the prisoner having time hanging over his head is all speculation, then do the exact same thing about Millers "agenda".

Monkey see, monkey do I guess.
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What difference does it make that I took 3 days? I almost never look at let alone post on DSF on the weekends especially when the weekend is as lovely as this last weekend was. I have a life, a wife, 3 kids, a house and a lawn who deserve my time in the evenings and weekends way more than you. That's such a silly thing to nit pick - but then again, you are thumb.

I've already explained why I think the reporter has an agenda. You seem to not be able to grasp any of it. I clearly said Miller "seemed" to have an agenda and I said that based on her comments about the medical examiners report and conclusions as well as her spurious attempt to discredit the second prisoners comments. And now, as we've learned, she was likely very wrong about the "number of years" comment. I suspect we're also likely to learn her comments about the medical examiners report were also misleading, but so far I haven't seen further detail on that. We'll see.
 
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