I'm looking forward to thanksgiving game. Lions rush D vs Starks/Grant. Packers pass D vs Stafford.


Hope pack heal up before then.

SLICK said:

as Schwartz said the big runs result from the secondary either not being in the right position to amke the tackle or just plain not making the tackle when the runner gets to the 2nd level.

he also said the one Gore run that went 55 , they got caught in the wrong defense with the wrong group of players on the field.

thats going to happen....but the tackling in the secondary has to get better.

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You could say Levy's tackling needs to get better as well. We don't expect Carpenter to be a tackling machine, but when out there he needs to be more active in the run game as well. Those trap plays were run right over the OLB in both the SF and ATL games. I think Tulloch is doing quite well inside, but he needs much more help outside as well to keep so many runs from getting to the safeties.

the run defense is a HUGE problem at the moment imho.......yes, we all wanna take those gash plays away because we all see without them, they're a pretty good run defense......but the fact of the matter is that you CAN'T. OUR RUN DEFENSE IS VERY MUCH INDEFENSIBLE right now. i do however feel we're CLOSE, we're close to being the team we wanna be.....as far as i'm concerned these gash plays are not the result of a bad scheme (i.e the wide 9 formation) but mental errors. you all feel the linebackers and the secondary are the ones at fault here, and while you may be correct....i still feel as if these plays DON'T NEED TO EVEN GET TO THEM if the defensive tackles stayed in their lanes more. (like last game)

look at those plays again.....i don't have to because i did indeed catch the fact that more often than not, the d-tackles were caught upfield chasing after the qb, and we were subsequently gashed with the run right WHERE THEY WEREN'T. unlike many times in our past history, these oversights are correctable by becoming more DISCIPLINED.....once that defense accomplishes this LOOK OUT, because believe it or don't those huge run gains are THE ONLY THING HOLDING US BACK from becoming a dominant team. think about it......without those big gains in the sf and atl games, WE COULD VERY POSSIBLY BE 8 AND FUCKING 0 right this instant, those contests were THAT CLOSE. first we must play EXACTLY as we did at denver each and every fucking week, but if we correct this glitch in our run defense.....i believe we can be a superbowl contender THIS VERY YEAR ..... yes, i do believe we are THAT FUCKING CLOSE.....

sorry, the DT gobble up OL so the LB's can make plays...under your premise RB's should can 1 yd because the DT should make all the plays at the lime of scrimmage

tsmith7559 said:

sorry, the DT gobble up OL so the LB's can make plays...under your premise RB's should can 1 yd because the DT should make all the plays at the lime of scrimmage

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i should've said the plays shouldn't have gotten to the secondary.......let me clarify that. but still review those gash runs, suh or williams were caught upfield on MOST OF THEM......had they stayed within their lanes the middle would've been too congested for the opposing running backs to make those kind of plays. that's what i'm attempting to say......those runs would've been stuffed at the line of scrimmage or even the backfield. i realize of couple of them were the result of sheer bad luck......(i.e caught in the wrong defense) but most of them were mental errors, which will occur at times......but it SHOULDN'T happen as often as they were committing them.

DMoney1980 said:

tsmith7559 said:

sorry, the DT gobble up OL so the LB's can make plays...under your premise RB's should can 1 yd because the DT should make all the plays at the lime of scrimmage

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i should've said the plays shouldn't have gotten to the secondary.......let me clarify that. but still review those gash runs, suh or williams were caught upfield on MOST OF THEM......had they stayed within their lanes the middle would've been too congested for the opposing running backs to make those kind of plays. that's what i'm attempting to say......those runs would've been stuffed at the line of scrimmage or even the backfield. i realize of couple of them were the result of sheer bad luck......(i.e caught in the wrong defense) but most of them were mental errors, which will occur at times......but it SHOULDN'T happen as often as they were committing them.

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it's not all mental errors..we don't play a read and react defense..our d-line is told to penetrate and get into the backfield as quick as possible..it makes it difficult on the secondary and linebackers..it definately is not an easy defense to play the run against...but some of it may be chemistry between the backers secondary and the line too...our run D has not been good..but there is good hope that we can fix it..because we hold backs most of the game...we just have to stop giving up that big run or two..like others pointed out..we don't get the ball run down our throats anymore...its just a few big runs..

dtroitlionsfan951 said:

DMoney1980 said:

i should've said the plays shouldn't have gotten to the secondary.......let me clarify that. but still review those gash runs, suh or williams were caught upfield on MOST OF THEM......had they stayed within their lanes the middle would've been too congested for the opposing running backs to make those kind of plays. that's what i'm attempting to say......those runs would've been stuffed at the line of scrimmage or even the backfield. i realize of couple of them were the result of sheer bad luck......(i.e caught in the wrong defense) but most of them were mental errors, which will occur at times......but it SHOULDN'T happen as often as they were committing them.

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it's not all mental errors..we don't play a read and react defense..our d-line is told to penetrate and get into the backfield as quick as possible..it makes it difficult on the secondary and linebackers..it definately is not an easy defense to play the run against...but some of it may be chemistry between the backers secondary and the line too...our run D has not been good..but there is good hope that we can fix it..because we hold backs most of the game...we just have to stop giving up that big run or two..like others pointed out..we don't get the ball run down our throats anymore...its just a few big runs..

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oh, i know that our d is trained to get after the quarterback, this is why our pass defense is much improved.....but OTHER TEAMS REALIZE THIS AS WELL......look at those runs, i recall for A FACT a couple of them were on draws where the opposing offense allowed our d-tackles to rush up the field before subsequently hitting us with the run WERE THEY WEREN'T. hey, i LOVE the aggressiveness of our guys, don't get me wrong here...... but the OVERT aggression is what cost us those games.......all i want them to do is at least attempt to stay within their lanes more......

Like what the last guy just said, the d-line isn't supposed to stay back and read the play before rushing the passer, they are told to get up the field and attack the qb. That's how this defense works. The only thing that will prevent Suh, Williams, etc. from getting trapped upfield is recognizing the play beforehand or as it is happening.

lgolfer said:

Like what the last guy just said, the d-line isn't supposed to stay back and read the play before rushing the passer, they are told to get up the field and attack the qb. That's how this defense works. The only thing that will prevent Suh, Williams, etc. from getting trapped upfield is recognizing the play beforehand or as it is happening.

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i understand that......but they'd better stay within their lanes a bit more against the bears coming up or forte is GOING TO KILL OUR ASSES......look, i don't want to take our aggressiveness away, this is whats going to make us great......i just want them to time it a bit better when they are going to be coming upfield, because believe you me, other teams are COUNTING on our ferociousness and hitting us with perfectly called draws or up the gut running plays. maybe they can just play the run more on first or second down......(but if you look at tape from this last game, they may be already trying it)

DMoney1980 said:

lgolfer said:

Like what the last guy just said, the d-line isn't supposed to stay back and read the play before rushing the passer, they are told to get up the field and attack the qb. That's how this defense works. The only thing that will prevent Suh, Williams, etc. from getting trapped upfield is recognizing the play beforehand or as it is happening.

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i understand that......but they'd better stay within their lanes a bit more against the bears coming up or forte is GOING TO KILL OUR ASSES......look, i don't want to take our aggressiveness away, this is whats going to make us great......i just want them to time it a bit better when they are going to be coming upfield, because believe you me, other teams are COUNTING on our ferociousness and hitting us with perfectly called draws or up the gut running plays. maybe they can just play the run more on first or second down......(but if you look at tape from this last game, they may be already trying it)

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who knows...maybe martz's ego takes over and he completely abandons the run again, gets cutler killed, and then still refuses to run the damn ball. sad thing is...i'm not just being funny, it really could play out that way.

fedexgooch78 said:

DMoney1980 said:

i understand that......but they'd better stay within their lanes a bit more against the bears coming up or forte is GOING TO KILL OUR ASSES......look, i don't want to take our aggressiveness away, this is whats going to make us great......i just want them to time it a bit better when they are going to be coming upfield, because believe you me, other teams are COUNTING on our ferociousness and hitting us with perfectly called draws or up the gut running plays. maybe they can just play the run more on first or second down......(but if you look at tape from this last game, they may be already trying it)

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who knows...maybe martz's ego takes over and he completely abandons the run again, gets cutler killed, and then still refuses to run the damn ball. sad thing is...i'm not just being funny, it really could play out that way.

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shit, i know i'm hoping for it......(to kill cuntler, i mean....again) it's just something about cutler's smug expressions that i just don't fucking like.....

Forte ran well against us on MNF and didn't seem to matter.

tsmith7559 said:

tonyballs said:

SF GASHED us for over 200+ on the ground.

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2 plays for 102 yards, 2 big plays, yes they count, but it wasn't a continuous pounding like in the past. Gore had 13/39 otherwise.

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Sure, i get that, but our D is ranked #30 against the run. Do you get it? How you continuously defend that baffles the fuck out of me. There are 2 worse teams in the ALL the NFL that shittier than us against the run...lol. There is no argument to defend that. Gash plays, continuous pounding, runs in bunches - who gives a fuck? They must get better against the run because they're horrific right now.
Look at it this way. They stop the run against SF, they win....bottomline - maybe even Atlanta too. You can argue that until you're blue in the fn face but you'll lose.

And in the two losses I think were attributed more to loss opportunities and bad plays on offense. Not Gore or Turner. I mean even with our run defense we still could have won both.

[color=#006400 said:

Mitch[/color]]And in the two losses I think were attributed more to loss opportunities and bad plays on offense. Not Gore or Turner. I mean even with our run defense we still could have won both.

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yeah, we "should have" won, but all i'm saying is that Alex Smith did fn nothing to win that game against us. Ryan played better than Smith, so that game is a toss up.

tonyballs said:

[color=#006400 said:

Mitch[/color]]And in the two losses I think were attributed more to loss opportunities and bad plays on offense. Not Gore or Turner. I mean even with our run defense we still could have won both.

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yeah, we "should have" won, but all i'm saying is that Alex Smith did fn nothing to win that game against us. Ryan played better than Smith, so that game is a toss up.

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No I agree they ran well and if we'd stop them, even with less than impressive offense , we'd have won. But I love the Lions being competive. No 1st Q down 21-0 stuff.

lionskillpack said:

tsmith7559 said:

show me one run anyone has broke for a score

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Frank Gore just about scored.

Run D needs work as those big runs are game changing. However, a bunch of stops then 1-2 big runs is still better than consistently getting gashed for 6-10 often. I remember when the Lions used to get consistently gashed AND give up the big runs. So they've made progress and I'd put up short yardage run stopping against any team in the league.

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Right either way they are LEADING to a score. Doesn't matter if they score the next play or even 3 plays from then.

tonyballs said:

[color=#006400 said:

Mitch[/color]]And in the two losses I think were attributed more to loss opportunities and bad plays on offense. Not Gore or Turner. I mean even with our run defense we still could have won both.

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yeah, we "should have" won, but all i'm saying is that Alex Smith did fn nothing to win that game against us. Ryan played better than Smith, so that game is a toss up.

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Frank Gore had 2 runs, one 47 and the other 55....they resulted in 10 pts. Special teams errors on our part lead to 10 pts and Stafford getting tackled in the endzone for a safety was another 2pts. The D stuff the run except for 10 pts...Ill put the loss to SF on special teams, not the run D

tsmith7559 said:

tonyballs said:

yeah, we "should have" won, but all i'm saying is that Alex Smith did fn nothing to win that game against us. Ryan played better than Smith, so that game is a toss up.

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Frank Gore had 2 runs, one 47 and the other 55....they resulted in 10 pts. Special teams errors on our part lead to 10 pts and Stafford getting tackled in the endzone for a safety was another 2pts. The D stuff the run except for 10 pts...Ill put the loss to SF on special teams, not the run D

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really ?? the 200+ allowed on the ground , gets a pass....ok..lol

tsmith7559 said:

tonyballs said:

yeah, we "should have" won, but all i'm saying is that Alex Smith did fn nothing to win that game against us. Ryan played better than Smith, so that game is a toss up.

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Frank Gore had 2 runs, one 47 and the other 55....they resulted in 10 pts. Special teams errors on our part lead to 10 pts and Stafford getting tackled in the endzone for a safety was another 2pts. The D stuff the run except for 10 pts...Ill put the loss to SF on special teams, not the run D

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200+ yards on the ground like i said. They control the run, they win that game. End of story. Alex Smith didn't do a fn thing the entire game. They completely shut down the pass.

And of course you blame the ST unit. The Ginn punt return happened at the end of the game. Too easy to put all the blame on the ST's.