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Tigers 2017-2018 Off Season Thread

Rebbiv said:
Not sure where you got that and/or how old it is. PHI signed Carlos Santana for 3-years, $60 Mil. So by himself, he makes $20 Mil in 2018.

http://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/

DET has $105.5 Mil committed to just 7 players in 2018. They have 5 players arbitration eligible, including Castellanos and Iglesias. So even DET's numbers are suspect. To met the numbers cited, they would have included Kinsler and did not include the monies owed for Fielder and Verlander.
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I was reading a random article yesterday and it had those numbers....I just cut and pasted the chart. Maybe the article was written prior to free agency.
 
grandy said:
I'm OK with the the front office completely tearing everything down, it's probably necessary, but I just have no faith that they can build it back up. Trades and free agents (plus a lot of $$$$$) were enough to keep this team afloat for a good while, but drafting and player development were never their strong suits and this team is going to be very bad for a while because of it.
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We're going to end up in a 10 year cycle of trying to acquire prospects and keeping the payroll down. And then when a prospect actually starts to develop and look like they could be something we'll have to trade them away for different prospects. It's going to be a lot of losing for a long time. It would be nice if Chris I would try to fulfill his father's wish and do whatever it takes to build a world series winner but I don't get that feeling.
 
The biggest question is what are the Tigers trying to build their team around? They went out and traded for Fulmer, Boyd. and Norris to start with. I know they all have not become 20 game winners yet but. age is on there side. And lets face the D have been a problem.

Besides it been the bull fail pen that sunk them more often than one can count.
But really they need some old guys for leadership. Yea they need younger players but not at the cost of who going play where.
 
tomdalton22 said:
maybe they can sweeten the deal and get something done. It really makes sense for the Yankees to do it.
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The Yankee's offer is very fair as is and I for once wouldn't be upset with the trade as mentioned. 3 starting position players and an up-and-coming front line starter for Fulmer is a very good deal (plus another pitcher). I am not sure what more you or Al is expecting.

Clint Frazier (23) = starting corner OFer. (top 50 prospect)

Tyler Wade (23) = starting 2B and possible leadoff candidate.

Thairo Estrada (22) = starting SS

Chance Adams (23) = top of the rotation starter (top 100 prospect)

Then, if needed, either Albert Abreu or Jorge Guzman.

Chance Adams could very well be another Justin Verlander. It is probably too much to expect Gleyber Torres, Chance Adams and Tyler Wade all in the same deal.
 
lonesometiger said:
The biggest question is what are the Tigers trying to build their team around? They went out and traded for Fulmer, Boyd. and Norris to start with. I know they all have not become 20 game winners yet but. age is on there side. And lets face the D have been a problem.

Besides it been the bull fail pen that sunk them more often than one can count.
But really they need some old guys for leadership. Yea they need younger players but not at the cost of who going play where.
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20-game winners are a product of a team scoring runs. On a good team, Fulmer could win 20 games, given the run support. He won't win 20 games on the Tigers any time soon. Norris can hardly pitch 6 innings. He has a issue with pitch economy and stamina. More often than not, he is at 100 pitches after 5 innings. He would be ideal as a late inning reliever, IMHO. Boyd and Norris need a veteran catcher to pitch to, or anyone other than McCannt.

Last 3 Years

Boyd w/McCann (107.0 IP) = 6.81 ERA 1.76 WHIP
Boyd w/Others (176.0 IP) = 4.24 ERA 1.27 WHIP

Norris w/McCann (142.6 IP) = 4.64 ERA 1.49 WHIP
Norris w/Others (64.0 IP) = 3.94 ERA 1.17 WHIP

Fulmer w/McCann (181.3 IP) = 3.42 ERA 1.11 WHIP
Fulmer w/Others (142.2 IP) = 3.41 ERA 1.17 WHIP
 
Rebbiv said:
The Yankee's offer is very fair as is and I for once wouldn't be upset with the trade as mentioned. 3 starting position players and an up-and-coming front line starter for Fulmer is a very good deal (plus another pitcher). I am not sure what more you or Al is expecting.

Clint Frazier (23) = starting corner OFer. (top 50 prospect)

Tyler Wade (23) = starting 2B and possible leadoff candidate.

Thairo Estrada (22) = starting SS

Chance Adams (23) = top of the rotation starter (top 100 prospect)

Then, if needed, either Albert Abreu or Jorge Guzman.

Chance Adams could very well be another Justin Verlander. It is probably too much to expect Gleyber Torres, Chance Adams and Tyler Wade all in the same deal.
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I agree with you, this move is how you re-build. However, reading the article, it doesn't say anything about all of those players being involved.

"Yankees top prospect Gleyber Torres was off limits in all three offers. The New York Post reported Friday that the next two prospects in their system, outfielder Estevan Florial and lefty Justus Sheffield, are also off the table. The offers, then, center around 23-year-old outfielder Clint Frazier and also include some combination of prospects: righty Chance Adams, infielder Tyler Wade, third baseman Miguel Andujar and shortstop Thairo Estrada."

It sounds like it's pure speculation.
 
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tomdalton22 said:
I agree with you, this move is how you re-build. However, reading the article, it doesn't say anything about all of those players being involved.

"Yankees top prospect Gleyber Torres was off limits in all three offers. The New York Post reported Friday that the next two prospects in their system, outfielder Estevan Florial and lefty Justus Sheffield, are also off the table. The offers, then, center around 23-year-old outfielder Clint Frazier and also include some combination of prospects: righty Chance Adams, infielder Tyler Wade, third baseman Miguel Andujar and shortstop Thairo Estrada."

It sounds like it's pure speculation.
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...Yankees made an offer to the Tigers that included outfielder Clint Frazier, infielders Tyler Wade and Thairo Estrada, and some pitchers that have yet to reach the majors, but the offer was rejected by Tigers general manager Al Avila.

The speculation is on the pitchers.

Assuming the pitchers without MLB experience were Chance Adams and another promising pitching prospect, this is a somewhat reasonable offer to make for a young, controllable, and cheap starter like Fulmer...

So, if the offer included Frazier, Wade, Estrada, Adams and an unnamed pitcher, and Avila rejected it, then he is a far dumber GM than I had credited him.
 
Rebbiv said:
...Yankees made an offer to the Tigers that included outfielder Clint Frazier, infielders Tyler Wade and Thairo Estrada, and some pitchers that have yet to reach the majors, but the offer was rejected by Tigers general manager Al Avila.

The speculation is on the pitchers.

Assuming the pitchers without MLB experience were Chance Adams and another promising pitching prospect, this is a somewhat reasonable offer to make for a young, controllable, and cheap starter like Fulmer...

So, if the offer included Frazier, Wade, Estrada, Adams and an unnamed pitcher, and Avila rejected it, then he is a far dumber GM than I had credited him.
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here is the problem with the story by the blogger Peter Kwasniak that you posted. He is basing it off this story http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...Cole-Clint-Frazier-trade/stories/201712220175

in that article it says
The offers, then, center around 23-year-old outfielder Clint Frazier and also include some combination of prospects: righty Chance Adams, infielder Tyler Wade, third baseman Miguel Andujar and shortstop Thairo Estrada.
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I think the blogger "reporting" for SB Nation took a huge leap on this one.
 
tomdalton22 said:
here is the problem with the story by the blogger Peter Kwasniak that you posted. He is basing it off this story http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...Cole-Clint-Frazier-trade/stories/201712220175

in that article it says

I think the blogger "reporting" for SB Nation took a huge leap on this one.
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Are you saying the offers for Archer and Fulmer were the same?

https://yanksgoyard.com/2017/12/28/yankees-rumors-fulmer-archer-rejected/

The first one, which we have substantially more information on, involved the Yankees sending Clint Frazier, Tyler Wade and No. 9 prospect Thairo Estrada to the Tigers for starting pitcher Michael Fulmer.
 
Avila trading Fulmer likely puts the '18 Tigers that much closer to challenging their '03 team's franchise record for losses in a season, but the Yankees offer was fair, given the very limited amount of time that Fulmer has had success in MLB. That the Yankees farm system keeps churning out trade-worthy studs, speaks volumes about our brass' ineptitude.
 
turok said:
Avila trading Fulmer likely puts the '18 Tigers that much closer to challenging their '03 team's franchise record for losses in a season, but the Yankees offer was fair, given the very limited amount of time that Fulmer has had success in MLB. That the Yankees farm system keeps churning out trade-worthy studs, speaks volumes about our brass' ineptitude.
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I'd gladly take a 120 loss season if they could flip Fulmer for those 4 guys.
 
tomdalton22 said:
I'd gladly take a 120 loss season if they could flip Fulmer for those 4 guys.
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Brass choke b/c CoPa attendance would sink even further w/o an "ace" SP
to trot out most every home series. Fulmer traded might result in one or two SP prospects with even one halfway decent MiLB half-season in AA being Porcelloed or Robbie Rayed.

Signing Zimmerbum to that anchor of a contract has turned out to be one of the worst post-20th century, and considering how many that the Tigers FO has whiffed on, that is pretty fucking gawdawful...good job AA!!

Jordan's WHIP has soared by .33 since being signed, with an average of 130 IP from 200+ with the Nats due to arm issues, his projected in '18 is 1.427 per BBR, while his salary jumps from $$18M to $$24M in '18-'19, and $$25M in '20.
 
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turok said:
Brass choke b/c CoPa attendance would sink even further w/o an "ace" SP
to trot out most every home series. Fulmer traded might result in one or two SP prospects with even one halfway decent MiLB half-season in AA being Porcelloed or Robbie Rayed.

Signing Zimmerbum to that anchor of a contract has turned out to be one of the worst post-20th century, and considering how many that the Tigers FO has whiffed on, that is pretty fucking gawdawful...good job AA!!
Click to expand...

but they have Miggy...attendance will be fine

#sarcasm
 
If this trade happened, I doubt seriously if they would lose 100 games, let alone 120. At current, DET does not even have a credible leadoff hitter. This trade would at least give them 2.

Additionally, making a trade like this makes trading for the likes of Dawel Lugo and Sergio Alcantara even more ludicrous. Both are on the 40-man roster and have less of an upside as Wade and/or Estrada. Wade and Estrada would provide just as good defense as Iglesias and Machado, and would produce more runs if they performed up to expectations. Frazier immediately becomes our best OFer. Adams is more than capable of providing a replacement for Fulmer.

Burrows, Manning, Perez and/or Faedo allare not too far from DET in development.

If you make this trade, then you spin Iglesias and Castellanos into anything worthwhile.
 
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