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Old 12-06-2017, 10:37 AM   #31
Sbee   Sbee is offline
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Originally Posted by SpartyNash View Post
Iím sorry but I vehemently disagree with the mentality of benching a guy for that as was the case tonight. Ward at his worst defensively is 90% of the time still a better option on the court than goins and even Schilling. Same with Winston being benched a bulk of the second half IIRC. Thereís a time and place to rip a guy and give him the tough love/teach a lesson, but to me itís not in a close game on the road especially a conference opponent. You can get away with that for a stretch of time in a blowout win/loss, not today. Thereís a reason Iím sitting on my couch watching games and Izzo is in the HOF but I just hate that line of thinking.
What about not playing a guy for not giving 100% effort? Playing down to the level of an opponent? What if you challenge the guy to give more effort at halftime and he doesn't seem to care?



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Old 12-06-2017, 12:17 PM   #32
MSUMatt28   MSUMatt28 is offline
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I'm all for taking guys out of the game that aren't doing what you want, and even on occasion (as in a handful of times a year, not every other week) attempting to send a strong message to light a fire under a player. But at least be fair about it. Rutgers was getting offensive rebounds all over the place in the second half yesterday with the other guys in there, but there didn't seem to be the same repercussions for that.


And Izzo shouldn't be trying to put it on the media saying they're creating a "quarterback controversy" or whatever he said. If your leading or second leading scorer plays 1 minute in the second half of a road conference game that is in doubt and he's healthy and not in foul trouble, be prepared to answer questions about it.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:28 PM   #33
SpartyNash   SpartyNash is offline
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Originally Posted by Sbee View Post
What about not playing a guy for not giving 100% effort? Playing down to the level of an opponent? What if you challenge the guy to give more effort at halftime and he doesn't seem to care?
If a guy is flat out not trying and just out there totally dicking around then no I don’t have a problem benching him. But in wards and Winston’s case it sounds like it was more to do with poor defense. Also I hate to say it but there is a double standard when it’s a key cog. You’ll never sell me that izzo didn’t partly cost us the MTSU game in 2016 (and potentially a national title) for benching deyonta Davis due to subpar defense in favor of Colby Wollenman.

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Old 12-06-2017, 12:32 PM   #34
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If a guy is flat out not trying and just out there totally dicking around then no I donít have a problem benching him. But in wards and Winstonís case it sounds like it was more to do with poor defense. Also I hate to say it but there is a double standard when itís a key cog. Youíll never sell me that izzo didnít partly cost us the MTSU game in 2016 (and potentially a national title) for benching deyonta Davis due to subpar defense in favor of Colby Wollenman.
I just read a good write up about Ward in the first half, he actually played more minutes than he usually does and there were no glaring errors. You could get really picky on a bad pass or bad decision but overall he was a plus player. Given that plus the quotes after the game, I'd assume it was something that happened in the locker room. I don't the extent but I will say there's no excuse for Ward not being a good teammate when he's not playing.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:57 PM   #35
SpartyNash   SpartyNash is offline
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I just read a good write up about Ward in the first half, he actually played more minutes than he usually does and there were no glaring errors. You could get really picky on a bad pass or bad decision but overall he was a plus player. Given that plus the quotes after the game, I'd assume it was something that happened in the locker room. I don't the extent but I will say there's no excuse for Ward not being a good teammate when he's not playing.
I donít disagree there. The whole keeping a distance from the rest of the bench, zoning out during timeouts and looking up at the Jumbotron after being benched is flat out petulant.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:30 AM   #36
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I've said it the last two years that it's bullshit that Izzo looks for reasons to sit Ward and play Goins. I don't get it and never will. It WILL cost us wins. I love Izzo, but this just doesn't make sense and could possibly ruin our season.
Izzo makes a lot of ( im boss and ill lose if you dont listen to me) reckless moves that cost MSU basketball wins. By the same token hes one of the best coahes college basketball has ever seen but he isnt aggressive. Hes willing to lose to prove a point year after year and I have some respect for his clean guy persona but cmon. I know hes always been a faithful guy when it comes to playing a below avg senior to a high flying freshmen and that is 1 GREAT REASON there isnt a second championship. He needs to let people play loose and most of all, LET THEM PLAY! Play the fucking best players and quit the god complex. There was no reason Ward should sit 95% of the second half.

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Old 12-08-2017, 12:56 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Spartan23MSU View Post
Izzo makes a lot of ( im boss and ill lose if you dont listen to me) reckless moves that cost MSU basketball wins. By the same token hes one of the best coahes college basketball has ever seen but he isnt aggressive. Hes willing to lose to prove a point year after year and I have some respect for his clean guy persona but cmon. I know hes always been a faithful guy when it comes to playing a below avg senior to a high flying freshmen and that is 1 GREAT REASON there isnt a second championship. He needs to let people play loose and most of all, LET THEM PLAY! Play the fucking best players and quit the god complex. There was no reason Ward should sit 95% of the second half.
There's a difference between sitting someone in December vs March, you can still teach lessons early on. You can see that some guys, when playing time is assured, don't get low in their stance on defense and don't commit to doing the little things well. Those little things are what lead you to have the best FG% against in the country, you need everyone to buy into that and Izzo believes the bench is a great teacher. We can second guess the Deyonta Davis decisions against MTSU, but he played 3 minutes less than his average in that game and MTSU's big men were a combined 6 of 11 from 3. We lost the game so we can second guess, but the reasons Izzo hasn't gotten a second title involve not cheating (and therefore not getting as many Cliff Alexanders) and running into hot teams at the wrong time, like 2014 with Uconn or losing Kalin Lucas and losing to Butler, etc.

Izzo likes to use the bench as a teacher, he tends to get players attention by doing that. Let's see how Nick Ward responds.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:09 PM   #38
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:01 PM   #39
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32 point favorite tonight against Southern Utah, I’ll take the points for sure
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:54 PM   #40
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Kansas and Duke lost. We win tonight and we're #1.
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