tomdalton22 said:

look at it from a star prospect's perspective. Would you go to a school that bans bans players from the program because they skip a bowl game? I think kicking kids off the team would hurt recruiting more than going 8-5 vs 9-4

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Read his post again. He's not just talking about kicking them off the team, but out of school completely! That's probably impossible for any number of reasons at most if not all schools where the football coach is not also the university president. not to mention excessively cruel to the players themselves. the school is going to collect it's bowl payout regardless if it wins or loses. who gives a shit if a guy - or even a handful of guys - sits it out? they helped get the team there.

holding a player or two responsible for the final ranking after a bowl loss is dumb as well.

tomdalton22 said:

look at it from a star prospect's perspective. Would you go to a school that bans bans players from the program because they skip a bowl game? I think kicking kids off the team would hurt recruiting more than going 8-5 vs 9-4

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I don't care about their perspective, I care about the University of Michigan. I root for a team that has the best win/loss record and percentage of any school in America. I would like to keep it that way.

You are not banning them, you are revoking their privileges. They ended a contract by sitting out. The school has to end theirs, right? It's only fair.

wlvrnstlr4life said:

See Mr. Durr, this isn't about them. It's about the school and it's fans. They signed a contract. It hurts recruiting to be a loser. Much like UCLA yesterday. If they were keeping Mora, yesterday's loss hurts the school a great deal. They are seen as a loser school at 6-7. Since Chip Kelly is coming in, it probably offsets their situation. Other schools not losing a coach, does damage. Now I do think the other part of the equation is that the school needs to provide insurance policies for scholarship players. It is only fair. Million $ Max protection for an athlete should be mandatory for all schools.

Remember, Peppers fucked us last year and cost us that game against FSU. That hurt us. 11-2 looks better than 10-3, and a #5 ranking is a helluva lot better than #11. It also hurts the history of one's program, so there are many factors here. That's fine when they want to sit out, millions are on the line, but how would you feel if Peppers shut it down for Ohio St.? The millions are still on the line in that game and the game before. Where does it end and when do the universities say, "see ya, we wish you luck, but you cant stick around. You quit, thus you broke your contract." I love the guys and respect them, but I do not donate to the university because of Jabrill Peppers being an NFL star. I don't care. I care about the University of Michigan.

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Finishing 10-3 vs 11-2, #5 vs #11, hurting history? I dunno man, that sounds all pretty nice, but in the long haul, it really doesn't matter. It's still a bowl game that carries no value. It's not a conference playoff, it's not the big playoff.

wlvrnstlr4life said:

I don't care about their perspective, I care about the University of Michigan. I root for a team that has the best win/loss record and percentage of any school in America. I would like to keep it that way.

You are not banning them, you are revoking their privileges. They ended a contract by sitting out. The school has to end theirs, right? It's only fair.

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I'm talking about the perspective of potential recruits. Kicking players off the team, or out of school, because they don't want to play in a bowl game is going to hurt recruiting...especially the top end talent.

michchamp said:

Read his post again. He's not just talking about kicking them off the team, but out of school completely! That's probably impossible for any number of reasons at most if not all schools where the football coach is not also the university president. not to mention excessively cruel to the players themselves. the school is going to collect it's bowl payout regardless if it wins or loses. who gives a shit if a guy - or even a handful of guys - sits it out? they helped get the team there.

holding a player or two responsible for the final ranking after a bowl loss is dumb as well.

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From a lawyers perspective I can see where you are coming from. Oh, the cruelty. But you are given a full ride scholarship to play FOOTBALL, not anything else. You are given free housing and free schooling to play FOOTBALL. If you are not fulfilling your agreement, I shouldn't have to fulfill mine. Right?

wlvrnstlr4life said:

They cut ties first by abandoning their school and teammates. Let's say Michigan is a 6-3/7-3 team and Charles Woodson decides to shut it down for Ohio State? How do you feel then? This was a situation in the 90's for many Wolverines. UM gave Ohio St. their only loss in 96. That's Michigan history..........forever.
I'm not saying give these guys the finger(although I did say fuckem in my original rant), but a firm handshake and a revocation of privileges is warranted. These guys are going to have to go somewhere else to train and to live. They no longer wanted to be part of the program.

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your hypothetical is dumb because no one is talking about skipping regular season games.

and regardless, one could be upset with players skipping a regular season game, and still not give a shit about them skipping what is really a meaningless post season exhibition. there's nothing inconsistent about that.

Look at the proliferation of dumbass bowl games and tell me these matter. Who gives a shit about the Beef O Brady Bowl, the Meineke Car Care Bowl, or the Military Bowl? nobody. and they're widely mocked. the Cap One Bowl, Outback, Gator, etc. are only slightly less irrelevant, but ultimately only the playoff bowls matter now. Blame the NCAA for cheapening it's brand, not the players for doing the logical thing for themselves.

LOL at you crying about "binding letters of intent" in the face of an NCAA, Athletic Directors, and Conference Commissioners that would sell their own grandmothers for a nickel.

dubbsco said:

Finishing 10-3 vs 11-2, #5 vs #11, hurting history? I dunno man, that sounds all pretty nice, but in the long haul, it really doesn't matter. It's still a bowl game that carries no value. It's not a conference playoff, it's not the big playoff.

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Ah, so what will you say then? Because this is going to happen sooner or later. This is kind of what I was building to and why I have said, "where does this all end?" My whole point is this is going to have a snowball effect on the future of college football.

wlvrnstlr4life said:

From a lawyers perspective I can see where you are coming from. Oh, the cruelty. But you are given a full ride scholarship to play FOOTBALL, not anything else. You are given free housing and free schooling to play FOOTBALL. If you are not fulfilling your agreement, I shouldn't have to fulfill mine. Right?

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they played 12 out of 12 regular season games, yet they don't get to graduate or finish the academic year even for skipping the post-season exhibition? seems harsh. even if you want to make this all about contractual principles, they still filled like 95% or their obligations.

I could see telling them they don't get the bowl freebies if they don't play in the bowl. that would be proportional, but still shitty. I wouldn't do it if I was a coach and wanted my players to know I cared about them.

I'd be saying "It's hard for me, sitting here as the highest paid University employee, to give you shit for looking out for your own financial future, especially since my salary depended on you, and yet you were not allowed to make money off your efforts. If we did have to pay you, neither I nor the rest of the coaches would get paid so much.

Thanks for your efforts this year, getting us here in the first place. Help so-and-so who will be replacing you in the lineup prepare. Good luck to you in the draft.

By the way, that part about where I sympathized with you for not being able to be paid for this: if you say it publicly, I will find you and murder you. I have to keep up appearances here or I won't be part of the club that allows complete fucking idiots and rednecks like John L Smith, Charlie Weis, Bobby Petrino, and Lane Kiffen to make millions of dollars."

I think from the players' perspective, whether college or Pro, the common goal of getting to the next level or getting paid overrides any fan loyalty or sentimentality. That said, it's still a small minority of 'stars' like Peppers and McCaffrey who do it. For the majority of college players, the Bowl game Senior year is their last football game and last college game, regardless.

TheVictors said:

I think from the players' perspective, whether college or Pro, the common goal of getting to the next level or getting paid overrides any fan loyalty or sentimentality. That said, it's still a small minority of 'stars' like Peppers and McCaffrey who do it. For the majority of college players, the Bowl game Senior year is their last football game and last college game, regardless.

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I had suspected that Peppers faked his injury to avoid playing. but for whatever reason, was under the impression that it was legit after all.

Do we know for sure he sat out?

michchamp said:

your hypothetical is dumb because no one is talking about skipping regular season games.

and regardless, one could be upset with players skipping a regular season game, and still not give a shit about them skipping what is really a meaningless post season exhibition. there's nothing inconsistent about that.

Look at the proliferation of dumbass bowl games and tell me these matter. Who gives a shit about the Beef O Brady Bowl, the Meineke Car Care Bowl, or the Military Bowl? nobody. and they're widely mocked. the Cap One Bowl, Outback, Gator, etc. are only slightly less irrelevant, but ultimately only the playoff bowls matter now. Blame the NCAA for cheapening it's brand, not the players for doing the logical thing for themselves.

LOL at you crying about "binding letters of intent" in the face of an NCAA, Athletic Directors, and Conference Commissioners that would sell their own grandmothers for a nickel.

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I actually agree with most of what you said. The NCAA is to blame for this. The stupid names for bowl games is ridiculous. There is no stability or tradition anymore. But there has to be an agreement down the line, though, or this gets worse than just some stupid name bowl game.

I can see I'm in the minority, here,that's fine. It doesn't mean I'm wrong. Just that my opinion differs.

michchamp said:

they played 12 out of 12 regular season games, yet they don't get to graduate or finish the academic year even for skipping the post-season exhibition? seems harsh. even if you want to make this all about contractual principles, they still filled like 95% or their obligations.

I could see telling them they don't get the bowl freebies if they don't play in the bowl. that would be proportional, but still shitty. I wouldn't do it if I was a coach and wanted my players to know I cared about them.

I'd be saying "It's hard for me, sitting here as the highest paid University member, to give you shit for looking out for your own financial future. Thanks for your efforts this year, getting us here in the first place. Help so-and-so who will be replacing you prepare. Good luck to you in the draft."

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Totally logical point and again, I agree. Now if I'm the head coach, I'm still perturbed because it's my ass on the line if we lose and continue to lose bowl games. Because it's the fans and university who I have to impress, first and foremost.

wlvrnstlr4life said:

Totally logical point and again, I agree. Now if I'm the head coach, I'm still perturbed because it's my ass on the line if we lose and continue to lose bowl games. Because it's the fans and university who I have to impress, first and foremost.

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okay, but when has a coach ever been fired over a bowl loss, where his star player sat out?

anyone who gets fired in that situation already had it coming.

wlvrnstlr4life said:

Ah, so what will you say then? Because this is going to happen sooner or later. This is kind of what I was building to and why I have said, "where does this all end?" My whole point is this is going to have a snowball effect on the future of college football.

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Maybe. There's a lot of money in these bowl games. I don't think they'll ever go away, to be honest. I see the playoff expanding to 8 and still having these go on.

michchamp said:

okay, but when has a coach ever been fired over a bowl loss, where his star player sat out?

anyone who gets fired in that situation already had it coming.

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I would say probably quite a few because it was the last straw. Not with a potential nfl guy sitting out, of course, because that situation is brand new. It will happen, though. And yes, Peppers did fuck us last year and I dont think last year's bowl game was meaningless at all. It was the friggin Orange Bowl.

dubbsco said:

Maybe. There's a lot of money in these bowl games. I don't think they'll ever go away, to be honest. I see the playoff expanding to 8 and still having these go on.

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This is probably one solution going forward.

Pinstripe Bowl Iowa-Boston College

BC up 7-3 with Iowa threatening at the 30.

Iowa up 10-7 with 11min left in the half. Harbaugh recruiting mistake AJ Dillon looking good.

BC back up 14_10

It looks pretty darn cold in New York, so cold that the field turf is frozen and the players are slipping on it.

Can't believe Harbaugh let this Dillon kid get away. He is very punishing. Just ripped off a 66yd run dead tired. Now has over 120yds in the 1st half.

Iowa better make some halftime adjustments because they are getting Iowaed right now. BC looks like a mirror image at the moment and doing it better.