2017 Lineup speculation

[tigermud]

Let's speculate on what the 2017 batting order should be, I agree Upton shouldn't be 2nd.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2017/02/22/detroit-tigers-justin-upton/98254014/

Ideally I think it should be something like

Iggy
Kinsler
Miggy
JD
Vmart
Nick
Upton
McCann/Avila
Whoever the CF ends up being.

Or could flip flop Nick and Upton as well. Or i'd may even like Nick 5 VMart 7 or 8 to help gotta keep those DP's from killing us too often somehow. Then flip kinsler to lead off and CF to the 2 hole on Iggy off days and backup SS 9th or when match ups suggest it prudent.

 

[tomdalton22]

I think I would go with this lineup

vs RHP

Collins
Kinsler
Miggy
JD
V-Mart
J Up
Nick
Avila
Iggy

vs LHP

Iggy
Kinsler
Miggy
JD
J Up
Nick
V-Mart
McCann
Mahtook

 

[Rebbiv]

vs RHP
1. Collins
2. Kinsler
3. Cabrera
4. V-Mart
5. J.D.
6. Upton
7. Castellanos
8. Avila
9. Iglesias

vs LHP
1. Iglesias
2. Kinsler
3. Cabrera
4. V-Mart
5. J.D.
6. McCann
7. Upton
8. Castellanos
9. Mahtook

 

[gotime909]

Not sure why you guys think anyone but Kinsler should lead off....

Kinsler
Upton
Miggy
VMart
JD
Nick
CF
Iglesias
Avila/McCann

Last 3 adjust to matchups, but I'd run the other 6 in that order every night.

 

[tomdalton22]

Not sure why you guys think anyone but Kinsler should lead off....

Kinsler
Upton
Miggy
VMart
JD
Nick
CF
Iglesias
Avila/McCann

Last 3 adjust to matchups, but I'd run the other 6 in that order every night.

for me it's because I don't like Upton in the #2 hole.

 

[dale675]

Man I miss the pre all star break Brennan Boesch in the 2 hole.

2010

243AB, 12HR, 21BB, .342AVG, .397OBP, .990OPS


2011

314AB, 12HR, 26BB, .306AVG, .360OBP, .850OPS

 

[Rebbiv]

for me it's because I don't like Upton in the #2 hole.

And it has to be about getting runners on base ahead of Miggy.

OBP last 3 years

vs RHP

M. Cabrera .379
V. Martinez .375
T. Collins .363
J.D. Martinez .347
A. Avila .346
I. Kinsler .330

J. Upton .311
J. Iglesias .307

N. Castellanos .294
J. McCann .255
M. Mahtook .235


vs LHP

M. Cabrera .404
V. Martinez .394
J.D. Martinez .363
J. Iglesias .359
I. Kinsler .343
J. McCann .335

M. Mahtook .322
J. Upton .320
N. Castellanos .320
A. Avila .305

T. Collins .225

Whether everyone else agrees, the 3, 4 and 5 hitters should be Miggy, Victor and then J.D. That leaves Collins as the next highest OBP after them 3 against RHP and Iggy against LHP. That is where I got my leadoff hitters. Kinsler is relatively equal between the two, so he was my #2.

The remaing 6-9 were based on overall OPS against RHP or LHP and nothing more.

Upton would absolutely suck as #2. I could leadoff Kinsler, but Collins would be my #2 against RHP and Iggy vs LHP.

 

[gotime909]

And it has to be about getting runners on base ahead of Miggy.

OBP last 3 years

vs RHP

M. Cabrera .379
V. Martinez .375
T. Collins .363
J.D. Martinez .347
A. Avila .346
I. Kinsler .330

J. Upton .311
J. Iglesias .307

N. Castellanos .294
J. McCann .255
M. Mahtook .235


vs LHP

M. Cabrera .404
V. Martinez .394
J.D. Martinez .363
J. Iglesias .359
I. Kinsler .343
J. McCann .335

M. Mahtook .322
J. Upton .320
N. Castellanos .320
A. Avila .305

T. Collins .225

Whether everyone else agrees, the 3, 4 and 5 hitters should be Miggy, Victor and then J.D. That leaves Collins as the next highest OBP after them 3 against RHP and Iggy against LHP. That is where I got my leadoff hitters. Kinsler is relatively equal between the two, so he was my #2.

The remaing 6-9 were based on overall OPS against RHP or LHP and nothing more.

Upton would absolutely suck as #2. I could leadoff Kinsler, but Collins would be my #2 against RHP and Iggy vs LHP.

Upton's career .350 obp batting in the second spot doesn't look that bad.

 

[dale675]

Whether everyone else agrees, the 3, 4 and 5 hitters should be Miggy, Victor and then J.D.

What are your thoughts on swapping VMart and JD? I like the idea because Victor is an absolute log jam on the base paths for JD/Upton/Nick/whoever gets a hit after him. Victor is hard to score from 2nd base so I feel he should be a bit lower in the lineup.

 

[byco42]

Upton's career .350 obp batting in the second spot doesn't look that bad.

But his 2016 numbers at #2 were garbage.

 

[gotime909]

But his 2016 numbers at #2 were garbage.

No doubt, but maybe that was adjusting to a new team and only 18 games. Also, Collins numbers in the 2 spot for his career are as bad as Justin's last year.

 

[byco42]

Then I wonder: "What is a #2 Hitter?" The guy who bats 2nd in the first inning of a game? Any one who bats #2 in an inning during the course of a game? Can't anyone be a #2 hitter at some point? Are we not all #2 hitters?

 

[tomdalton22]

Then I wonder: "What is a #2 Hitter?" The guy who bats 2nd in the first inning of a game? Any one who bats #2 in an inning during the course of a game? Can't anyone be a #2 hitter at some point? Are we not all #2 hitters?

I'm not a #2 hitter. I haven't played baseball in over 30 years.

 

[byco42]

I'm not a #2 hitter. I haven't played baseball in over 30 years.

Well you were at some point.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Bored with the idea that Iggy batting 1 or 2. He should bat 9.

I'd go

1.) Kinsler 2.) Upton (Bounce back year) 3.) Miggy 4.) Victor 5.) JD 6.) Avila 7.) Nick 8.) Collins 9.) Iggy

Just vs RHP.

 

[gotime909]

Bored with the idea that Iggy batting 1 or 2. He should bat 9.

I'd go

1.) Kinsler 2.) Upton (Bounce back year) 3.) Miggy 4.) Victor 5.) JD 6.) Avila 7.) Nick 8.) Collins 9.) Iggy

Just vs RHP.

I like most of that, but Nick mashed RHP last year. Only way I put Avila in front of him is if they let him hit off a tee.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I like most of that, but Nick mashed RHP last year. Only way I put Avila in front of him is if they let him hit off a tee.

I actually had Nick at 6 and then edited. He had a nice season last year and didn't want him to mess that up.

 

[Rebbiv]

Upton's career .350 obp batting in the second spot doesn't look that bad.

Just to nit pick....but it is .346 Career and was built based on distant memories and not what he has done recently (last 3 years).

Anyways, the vast majority of his time hitting #2 was in 2013 and it was just 48 Games Started hitting #2. Why? Because it was primarily against LHP.

2013 vs LHP = .427 OBP .567 SLG .994 OPS

2013 vs RHP = .328 OBP .434 SLG .762 OPS


Career (Primarily ARZ)

Home vs LHP =.290 BAVG .395 OBP .561 SLG .956 OPS
Home vs RHP=.292 BAVG .366 OBP .512 SLG .878 OPS

Career Home Total = .291 BAVG .373 OBP .524 SLG .897 OPS

Last 3 Years Home = .276 BAVG .360 OBP .515 SLG .865 OPS


Away vs LHP=.245 BAVG .348 OBP .434 SLG .782 OPS
Away vs RHP= .248 BAVG .314 OBP .421 SLG .735 OPS

Away Total = .247 BAVG .322 OBP .424 SLG .746 OPS

Last 3 Years Away = .238 BAVG .302 OBP .431 SLG .733 OPS


9 Sep 2016 Season Total = .239 BAVG .295 OBP .426 SLG .721 OPS



If the argument is to make him #2 hitter against LHP, OK, I could go with that. But there is no way I would expect him to succeed in the #2 against RHP and especially on the road vs RHP.

 

[Rebbiv]

What are your thoughts on swapping VMart and JD? I like the idea because Victor is an absolute log jam on the base paths for JD/Upton/Nick/whoever gets a hit after him. Victor is hard to score from 2nd base so I feel he should be a bit lower in the lineup.

We have a team full of log jams. Iggy, Kinsler, CF and Upton are about the only ones that aren't. Victor needs to be hitting 4th as long as he is hitting. J.D. is more apt to hit a HR with him on anyways, so why would it matter?

Career, Man on 1st, less than 2 outs:

M. Cabrera .382 OBP .597 SLG .979 OPS
V. Martinez .379 OBP .543 SLG .922 OPS
T. Collins .403 OBP .500 SLG .903 OPS

J. Upton .356 OBP .492 SLG .848 OPS
J.D. Martinez .332 OBP .514 SLG .846 OPS
M. Mahtook .340 OBP .489 SLG .829 OPS
I. Kinsler .345 OBP .470 SLG .815 OPS
A. Avila .342 OBP .448 SLG .790 OPS

N. Castellanos .306 OBP .414 SLG .720 OPS

A. Gose .306 OBP .363 SLG .669 OPS
J. Iglesias .300 OBP .358 SLG .658 OPS
A. Romine .294 OBP .280 SLG .574 OPS
J. McCann .241 OBP .321 SLG .562 OPS


What are the odds your cleanup hitter hits with a runner on 1B and less than 2 outs? I will take Victor all day long. A lot of his "singles" are actually doubles and scores the runner from first. If not, you have first and third, less than 2 outs. Does that matter if Victor is clogging the bases? At a minimum, you want a Sac Fly to score the runner on third.

Additionally, if it is 2B and less than 2 outs, odds are, in a close game, they walk your cleanup and pitch to whoever is next. First and second, with less than 2 outs. He might not score on a double, but he gets to 3. And even if J.D. hit a "double" that Victor keeps him to only a single, you have 1st and 2nd and a run in. I am trying to see the downside to all this.

 

[Mitchrapp]

They seem to continue to get Victor batting 2nd. I'm not sure I like him that high up. Especially because he's one slow ass dude.