Welcome to Detroit Sports Forum!

By joining our community, you'll be able to connect with fellow fans that live and breathe Detroit sports just like you!

Get Started
  • If you are no longer able to access your account since our recent switch from vBulletin to XenForo, you may need to reset your password via email. If you no longer have access to the email attached to your account, please fill out our contact form and we will assist you ASAP. Thanks for your continued support of DSF.

American Fast Food Worker Strike/Minimum Wage

tigersofjustice

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
1,747
http://news.yahoo.com/fast-food-strikes-set-cities-203908268.html

Interesting article. The comments, as expected, bother me somewhat. There seems to be a disconnect between the way most people think about this as they relate it to other issues for me.

US minimum wage is 7.25. To me, a lot of people don't seem to understand just how little that is. I get it, after years of working for more, in some cases, substantially more, you might not understand what is the basic level of money needed to just survive in society. Another issue is that people who do understand that the amount is not a 'living wage' still say 'well they should get more education then' or harp on the fact that they are on government assistance. Both points bother me and show a lack of understanding at the overall structure.

First, if you are getting paid 7.25 an hour you basically have to be on government assistance to survive in a big city at least. I've lived in NYC for example, I've lived in crummy parts of NYC, I would need at least double that to just not be homeless.

Second, if minimum wage was increased to say $15 an hour as it is in Australia, people wouldn't need to be on government assistance. That seems to be a point that is lost on most. If low wage worker has wages increased, they don't need John Q. Taxpayer's money as badly. You have essentially shifted the burden of taking care of these people from the government to the employer. Right now, we have employers feeding off what is essentially a government subsidy by paying them like crap and then relying on the government to give them enough to survive.

Third, minimum wage is lower compared to the cost of living than it was 40 years ago. Much lower. If it had been keeping up with the CPI like it was supposed to, it would be closer to 15 bucks an hour.

Fourth, this "hurts" restaurants and consumers only in the sense that a particular restaurant may be inefficient or in over supply. In the restaurant industry, something like 30-40% of costs are worker wages. A substantial portion no doubt but not over half and not even the biggest cost, which is real estate. Australian McDonalds make as much profit as the US versions paying 15 an hour to workers because they are more efficient, because they are forced to be more efficient due to higher worker costs. Japan McDonalds, which pays workers essentially the same amount as the US has lower prices because they are more efficient. In Europe and Australia, prices are only about 17% higher. Restaurants have to make up for this cost with either higher volume, more efficiency or higher prices. They would probably use a combination and the volume problem would be solved by their simply being fewer McDonald's. Instead of one literally every mile, maybe have one only every two miles. Owners could still be just as profitable, the only people who may pay more are consumers and at that point, you have to ask would you rather pay an extra 50 cents for a burger when you actually go or just pay out the workers in government subsidies through your taxes.

Fifth, the whole "get more education" thing is beyond stupid. So what if everyone in the world woke up tomorrow and had a PHd level education and you just had a masters? Guess what, you're the guy working at McDonalds now because education only matters as it relates to everyone else. Education is relative and frankly, society needs people who are less educated/skilled to do these jobs otherwise they wouldn't get done and you wouldn't get your hamburger. So unless someone can figure out a way to make fast food a totally humanless process, telling individual employees they need to get educated is useless because it does nothing for the systemic problem.

I will say that I think unions can be, and frequently are, terribly ineffective and inefficient. But in this case, simply raising US minimum wage solves a lot of these issues. Don't like paying a bit more for a burger, don't go if that 50 cents is a deal breaker. At least you have the choice to do that or save that extra money you would now have from slightly lower taxes. Don't want to lose money in the restaurant biz? Don't open another McDonald's five feet from the next closest one and expect to make a profit. Also, learn how to be a leaner, better manager.

End rant for now.
 
last i checked fast food employees werent union. Fire them and hire one of the 300 application you have sitting on your desk.

I work for coke and although im non union all of my employees under me are. Only thing the union does for them is protects the awful workers from being fired sooner than they should and makes it more diffcult to reward the workers that deserve recognition. I dont know why anyone would want that in a business...maybe there are some out there but as far as my company goes it just doesnt have many benefits. Most of these kids...are just that...uneducated kids not making much and then they have to pay a union due monthly on top of that. Shame on them for not deunionizing if you ask me.
 
Last edited:
Read "Fast Food Nation" or excerpts from it ....talks about how fast food joints have lead the way with wage suppression and with things like lowering the qualifications -- as far as illiteracy/inability to speak English -- by using cartoon training manuals, etc.
 
Fast food is a stepping stone no skills required job for a reason. What's the difference between fast food and any other minimum wage job that makes them think they deserve that? You don't need any sort of education or brain cells to work fast food.
 
If you raised the wages for the little guys, the big guys might not be able to afford a new Gulfstream or yacht every other year.

That can't happen!
 
Apparently 4.7% of the jobs out there last year were minimum wage. I wonder how that compares to previous decades.
 
last i checked fast food employees werent union. Fire them and hire one of the 300 application you have sitting on your desk.

I work for coke and although im non union all of my employees under me are. Only thing the union does for them is protects the awful workers from being fired sooner than they should and makes it more diffcult to reward the workers that deserve recognition. I dont know why anyone would want that in a business...maybe there are some out there but as far as my company goes it just doesnt have many benefits. Most of these kids...are just that...uneducated kids not making much and then they have to pay a union due monthly on top of that. Shame on them for not deunionizing if you ask me.

meh. I've heard a lot about that argument that without unions, our giant mega-globo corporations would be bastions of efficiency, and that's just probably not true.

all they do is afford workers some basic protections and safety standards, and child labor laws at least. without them, we KNOW how bad it would get because we have history books.
 
last i checked fast food employees werent union. Fire them and hire one of the 300 application you have sitting on your desk.

I work for coke and although im non union all of my employees under me are. Only thing the union does for them is protects the awful workers from being fired sooner than they should and makes it more diffcult to reward the workers that deserve recognition. I dont know why anyone would want that in a business...maybe there are some out there but as far as my company goes it just doesnt have many benefits. Most of these kids...are just that...uneducated kids not making much and then they have to pay a union due monthly on top of that. Shame on them for not deunionizing if you ask me.

This was not a Pro Union rant. This was an anti ridiculously low american minimum wage rant.

I agree about unions. They have some use but their biggest issue overall is the protection of horrible employees. If you could actually get fired for doing a terrible job I think there would be less opposition to them.
 
Fast food is a stepping stone no skills required job for a reason. What's the difference between fast food and any other minimum wage job that makes them think they deserve that? You don't need any sort of education or brain cells to work fast food.

The point is not that restaurant workers in particular deserve higher wages, it's that all workers earning below what is reasonable to be able to live without government assistance deserve higher wages.

That's the point to me anyway. The restaurant industry is just one subset of that that is highlighted by this 'strike' plan.
 
Last edited:
This was not a Pro Union rant. This was an anti ridiculously low american minimum wage rant.

I agree about unions. They have some use but their biggest issue overall is the protection of horrible employees. If you could actually get fired for doing a terrible job I think there would be less opposition to them.

you can. I think the stories of the guy who's punched in while he's at the corner bar boozing it up or sleeping in his car, while living in a Kid-Rock-sized McMansion in metro-Detroit are way overblown. they serve a PR purpose for the GOP and management though, so they get trumpeted by just about every potential mouthpiece out there.

was a union member for a summer in college while I made parts at a automotive supplier in Auburn Hills. I certainly didn't see any more incompetence among union labor than any other type, including management, and upper management... and geez, it's not exactly easy to fire them either. if you do, get ready to shell out big bucks for the golden parachute!
 
you can. I think the stories of the guy who's punched in while he's at the corner bar boozing it up or sleeping in his car, while living in a Kid-Rock-sized McMansion in metro-Detroit are way overblown. they serve a PR purpose for the GOP and management though, so they get trumpeted by just about every potential mouthpiece out there.

They're outdated more than overblown. Those jobs used to exist.
 
There are pros and cons to raising the minimum wage.

Being able to come close to a living wage, with little or no government assistance is a huge pro. This immediately helps solve a number of problems.

There are a number of cons too, but whether or not they out-weigh the pros is tough to determine.

First, beyond just the possibility of rising prices, which would be expected, the fast food establishment may decide to go with less employees, trying to keep labor costs from rising too much too fast. Have to admit this is offset somewhat by the National Health Care law. These jobs, at this time, are generally part time, and to keep the level of service they are currently providing, they would probably have to compensate by allowing the current employees more hours, which could in turn cause the restaurant to have to provide benefits. Would be a balancing act to be sure.

Second, if either the minimum wage is increased, or the possibility of benefits exists, you will find out-of-work people, that would normally be over-qualified, taking those jobs from the younger unskilled work force. Some might actually consider this a pro. :*)

The lower wage, unskilled jobs, do allow kids and students the ability to get their feet wet in the working world, attempting to keep a schedule, earn extra money, learning how to deal with difficult people who invariably will be their boss, etc.

Maybe raise the minimum wage with exemptions, like they currently do for wait staff in normal restaurants, etc.

In any case, the only thing really known for sure, is that both for and opposed will use this a political club in every discussion on the matter. Seems to be SOP for anything these days.
 
Last edited:
If the minimum wage was pegged to cost of living, we wouldn't need this discussion and we could worry about the gutting of the middle class jobs out there.
 
Back
Top