- Thread Author
- #1
tigersofjustice
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2011
- Messages
- 1,747
http://news.yahoo.com/fast-food-strikes-set-cities-203908268.html
Interesting article. The comments, as expected, bother me somewhat. There seems to be a disconnect between the way most people think about this as they relate it to other issues for me.
US minimum wage is 7.25. To me, a lot of people don't seem to understand just how little that is. I get it, after years of working for more, in some cases, substantially more, you might not understand what is the basic level of money needed to just survive in society. Another issue is that people who do understand that the amount is not a 'living wage' still say 'well they should get more education then' or harp on the fact that they are on government assistance. Both points bother me and show a lack of understanding at the overall structure.
First, if you are getting paid 7.25 an hour you basically have to be on government assistance to survive in a big city at least. I've lived in NYC for example, I've lived in crummy parts of NYC, I would need at least double that to just not be homeless.
Second, if minimum wage was increased to say $15 an hour as it is in Australia, people wouldn't need to be on government assistance. That seems to be a point that is lost on most. If low wage worker has wages increased, they don't need John Q. Taxpayer's money as badly. You have essentially shifted the burden of taking care of these people from the government to the employer. Right now, we have employers feeding off what is essentially a government subsidy by paying them like crap and then relying on the government to give them enough to survive.
Third, minimum wage is lower compared to the cost of living than it was 40 years ago. Much lower. If it had been keeping up with the CPI like it was supposed to, it would be closer to 15 bucks an hour.
Fourth, this "hurts" restaurants and consumers only in the sense that a particular restaurant may be inefficient or in over supply. In the restaurant industry, something like 30-40% of costs are worker wages. A substantial portion no doubt but not over half and not even the biggest cost, which is real estate. Australian McDonalds make as much profit as the US versions paying 15 an hour to workers because they are more efficient, because they are forced to be more efficient due to higher worker costs. Japan McDonalds, which pays workers essentially the same amount as the US has lower prices because they are more efficient. In Europe and Australia, prices are only about 17% higher. Restaurants have to make up for this cost with either higher volume, more efficiency or higher prices. They would probably use a combination and the volume problem would be solved by their simply being fewer McDonald's. Instead of one literally every mile, maybe have one only every two miles. Owners could still be just as profitable, the only people who may pay more are consumers and at that point, you have to ask would you rather pay an extra 50 cents for a burger when you actually go or just pay out the workers in government subsidies through your taxes.
Fifth, the whole "get more education" thing is beyond stupid. So what if everyone in the world woke up tomorrow and had a PHd level education and you just had a masters? Guess what, you're the guy working at McDonalds now because education only matters as it relates to everyone else. Education is relative and frankly, society needs people who are less educated/skilled to do these jobs otherwise they wouldn't get done and you wouldn't get your hamburger. So unless someone can figure out a way to make fast food a totally humanless process, telling individual employees they need to get educated is useless because it does nothing for the systemic problem.
I will say that I think unions can be, and frequently are, terribly ineffective and inefficient. But in this case, simply raising US minimum wage solves a lot of these issues. Don't like paying a bit more for a burger, don't go if that 50 cents is a deal breaker. At least you have the choice to do that or save that extra money you would now have from slightly lower taxes. Don't want to lose money in the restaurant biz? Don't open another McDonald's five feet from the next closest one and expect to make a profit. Also, learn how to be a leaner, better manager.
End rant for now.
Interesting article. The comments, as expected, bother me somewhat. There seems to be a disconnect between the way most people think about this as they relate it to other issues for me.
US minimum wage is 7.25. To me, a lot of people don't seem to understand just how little that is. I get it, after years of working for more, in some cases, substantially more, you might not understand what is the basic level of money needed to just survive in society. Another issue is that people who do understand that the amount is not a 'living wage' still say 'well they should get more education then' or harp on the fact that they are on government assistance. Both points bother me and show a lack of understanding at the overall structure.
First, if you are getting paid 7.25 an hour you basically have to be on government assistance to survive in a big city at least. I've lived in NYC for example, I've lived in crummy parts of NYC, I would need at least double that to just not be homeless.
Second, if minimum wage was increased to say $15 an hour as it is in Australia, people wouldn't need to be on government assistance. That seems to be a point that is lost on most. If low wage worker has wages increased, they don't need John Q. Taxpayer's money as badly. You have essentially shifted the burden of taking care of these people from the government to the employer. Right now, we have employers feeding off what is essentially a government subsidy by paying them like crap and then relying on the government to give them enough to survive.
Third, minimum wage is lower compared to the cost of living than it was 40 years ago. Much lower. If it had been keeping up with the CPI like it was supposed to, it would be closer to 15 bucks an hour.
Fourth, this "hurts" restaurants and consumers only in the sense that a particular restaurant may be inefficient or in over supply. In the restaurant industry, something like 30-40% of costs are worker wages. A substantial portion no doubt but not over half and not even the biggest cost, which is real estate. Australian McDonalds make as much profit as the US versions paying 15 an hour to workers because they are more efficient, because they are forced to be more efficient due to higher worker costs. Japan McDonalds, which pays workers essentially the same amount as the US has lower prices because they are more efficient. In Europe and Australia, prices are only about 17% higher. Restaurants have to make up for this cost with either higher volume, more efficiency or higher prices. They would probably use a combination and the volume problem would be solved by their simply being fewer McDonald's. Instead of one literally every mile, maybe have one only every two miles. Owners could still be just as profitable, the only people who may pay more are consumers and at that point, you have to ask would you rather pay an extra 50 cents for a burger when you actually go or just pay out the workers in government subsidies through your taxes.
Fifth, the whole "get more education" thing is beyond stupid. So what if everyone in the world woke up tomorrow and had a PHd level education and you just had a masters? Guess what, you're the guy working at McDonalds now because education only matters as it relates to everyone else. Education is relative and frankly, society needs people who are less educated/skilled to do these jobs otherwise they wouldn't get done and you wouldn't get your hamburger. So unless someone can figure out a way to make fast food a totally humanless process, telling individual employees they need to get educated is useless because it does nothing for the systemic problem.
I will say that I think unions can be, and frequently are, terribly ineffective and inefficient. But in this case, simply raising US minimum wage solves a lot of these issues. Don't like paying a bit more for a burger, don't go if that 50 cents is a deal breaker. At least you have the choice to do that or save that extra money you would now have from slightly lower taxes. Don't want to lose money in the restaurant biz? Don't open another McDonald's five feet from the next closest one and expect to make a profit. Also, learn how to be a leaner, better manager.
End rant for now.