Coke

[michiganalex]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/29235/phil-coke

notice that after the first 2 months of the season he's been on spot?

 

[tomdalton22]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/29235/phil-coke

notice that after the first 2 months of the season he's been on spot?

I didn't realize he has been good since then.

 

[Thumb]

I didn't realize he has been good since then.

He hasn't been.

Look at the number of hits vs. IP. Also this does not show what happened to his inherited runners.

Phil Coke is not a good pitcher. Period.

 

[UMRules06]

Depends what we mean by "good." He's been better absolutely, I think that's obvious. I hesitate to say I almost trust him to face a good lefty in a tough spot right now. Like Thumb said though, he still allows his fair share of baserunners.

 

[tomdalton22]

He hasn't been.

Look at the number of hits vs. IP. Also this does not show what happened to his inherited runners.

Phil Coke is not a good pitcher. Period.

I should have worded that better. I should have said he has been better...I should NEVER describe Coke as a good pitcher!

 

[hellifino]

Phil Choke. I cringe at him being announced,in the bullpen warming up.

 

[Rebbiv]

After the AS Break (38 OPP PA Min)


Hardy .347 OBP .279 SLG .626 OPS

Scherzer .292 OBP .340 SLG .632 OPS

Sanchez .305 OBP .328 SLG .633 OPS

Price .279 OBP .379 SLG .658 OPS

Albuquerque .316 OBP .343 SLG .660 OPS

Lobstein .298 OBP .363 SLG .661 OPS

J. Johnson .367 OBP .297 SLG .665 OPS

Coke .323 OBP .349 SLG .672 OPS

Porcello .296 OBP .382 SLG .678 OPS

Nathan .376 OBP .329 SLG .705 OPS


Verlander .328 OBP .453 SLG .781 OPS

Chamberlain .378 OBP .410 SLG .788 OPS


McCoy .481 OBP .476 SLG .957 OPS

R. Ray .410 OBP .661 SLG 1.071 OPS

Farmer .405 OBP .676 SLG 1.081 OPS

Soria .421 OBP .676 SLG 1.097 OPS


I believe everything is relative, but AA and Coke are the only two relievers with an OPP OBP under .330. All the regular starters and Lobstein also meet that.

Yes, Coke has been good, not great since the AS break.


Since AS Break

Reed 5 IR 0 IS 0.0% (15 IR 2 IS 13.3% season)

J. Johnson 6 IR 1 IS 16.7%

Albuquerque 23 IR 4 IS 17.4%

Coke 22 IR 6 IS 27.3%

Hardy 19 IR 6 IS 31.6%


Soria 5 IR 2 IS 40.0%

Lobstein 2 IR 1 IS 50.0%

Chamberlain 7 IR 4 IS 57.1%

Krol 10 IR 6 IS 60.0%

McCoy 2 IR 2 IS 100.0%

Nathan 0 IR 0 IS ---


These numbers can be misleading. Twice J. Johnson didn't have an Inherited Runner score, but was credited with a run allowed. Why? Because of events like caught stealing and fielder's choice. Conversely, coming in with the bases loaded and giving up a grand slam is hard to change your numbers back within reason. But it certainly gives you an idea on usage. Hardy, AA and Coke by far come in more with men on base. It is harder for a pitcher when they do that.

 

[hellifino]

stats don't mean nothing to me.sure he's gone out there a few times and had some decent outings with a 5 run lead. it's when they bring him out with a 2 run lead.

 

[Rebbiv]

Coke isn't even in the top 3-4 of our worries right now. I worry more when Chamberlain, Johnson or Nathan come in. I am also not sure about Soria right now.

If the playoffs started today, what 12 pitchers make the playoff roster?

Scherzer
Price
Porcello
Sanchez
Verlander

AA
Coke
Hardy
Nathan
Chamberlain
Soria
Reed


That's my guess.

 

[michiganalex]

hey i'm not saying he is great or even good, but it does seem like the numbers have been inmproving as the season progressed

 

[xer0]

Phil Coke is garbage.

 

[tomdalton22]

Phil Coke is garbage.

Since the Price trade he has been better than David Price!

 

[Rebbiv]

Since the Price trade he has been better than David Price!

Since the AS break, he has been better than Ian Kinsler!

 

[tomdalton22]

Since the AS break, he has been better than Ian Kinsler!

Not true. Kinsler has been fantastic defensively at 2B. His impact on the team defensively has been 10x any positive impact Coke has had pitching.

I know you aren't a fan of Kinsler but I have NEVER seen a better defensive 2b in a Tiger uniform.

 

[Rebbiv]

Not true. Kinsler has been fantastic defensively at 2B. His impact on the team defensively has been 10x any positive impact Coke has had pitching.

I know you aren't a fan of Kinsler but I have NEVER seen a better defensive 2b in a Tiger uniform.

You really think his defense is worth $16 Mil?


Additionally, 2B defense has minimal effect on a team. I really don't want to have to explain how little this means.

Why is it no one wants to discuss how terrible Kinsler has been as a hitter since June? And I mean terrible. Any defense of him is comical.

Yet, all I am saying with Coke, is he hasn't been the issue. He has been good, not great since the AS break. It is harder to pitch when you constantly enter the game with runners on base. Give him some fucking slack for a change and harp on who really is the issue.

 

[tomdalton22]

You really think his defense is worth $16 Mil?


Additionally, 2B defense has minimal effect on a team. I really don't want to have to explain how little this means.

Why is it no one wants to discuss how terrible Kinsler has been as a hitter since June? And I mean terrible. Any defense of him is comical.

Yet, all I am saying with Coke, is he hasn't been the issue. He has been good, not great since the AS break. It is harder to pitch when you constantly enter the game with runners on base. Give him some fucking slack for a change and harp on who really is the issue.

no, his defense has not been worth $16M a year and I agree that Coke has not been the problem since the ASB. As far as Kinsler's defense...he has been great! I don't care if it is at 2b. He is by far the best defensive player on the team and has the most positive impact on the team with his defense. In the past few weeks alone he has probably robbed 5-10 hits while other defensive players have been costing the Tigers runs.

If we are going to start looking at salary and compare it to what they have delivered this season here are the two biggest problems with the team.

JV & Nathan!

 

[Rebbiv]

no, his defense has not been worth $16M a year and I agree that Coke has not been the problem since the ASB. As far as Kinsler's defense...he has been great! I don't care if it is at 2b. He is by far the best defensive player on the team and has the most positive impact on the team with his defense. In the past few weeks alone he has probably robbed 5-10 hits while other defensive players have been costing the Tigers runs.

If we are going to start looking at salary and compare it to what they have delivered this season here are the two biggest problems with the team.

JV & Nathan!

OK, even a bad defensive 2B will rob a hit from time to time. It really has more to do with positioning, and that comes from scouting reports. But your notion of 5-10 seems to me to be too extreme. And again, I am not up to showing the statistical analysis to shed light on this.

Brandon Inge = Ian Kinlser defensively. Would you have Inge back over Castellanos just because the perception is he plays good defense?

What about all the bone head mistakes Kinsler has made in the field that hasn't shown as an error and even his getting picked off base?

Posters have ragged on Kelly. They have ragged on Romine. They have ragged on Castellanos. They have ragged on Avila. They have ragged on just about every pitcher not named Scherzer or Sanchez. Early in the year, they were ragging on Hunter.

Yet, since the AS break (if not longer), Ian Kinsler has been a below average offensive 2B and certainly a below average leadoff hitter. I am chastised for just mentioning that fact. Why the hypocrisy?

 

[tomdalton22]

OK, even a bad defensive 2B will rob a hit from time to time. It really has more to do with positioning, and that comes from scouting reports. But your notion of 5-10 seems to me to be too extreme. And again, I am not up to showing the statistical analysis to shed light on this.

Brandon Inge = Ian Kinlser defensively. Would you have Inge back over Castellanos just because the perception is he plays good defense?

What about all the bone head mistakes Kinsler has made in the field that hasn't shown as an error and even his getting picked off base?

Posters have ragged on Kelly. They have ragged on Romine. They have ragged on Castellanos. They have ragged on Avila. They have ragged on just about every pitcher not named Scherzer or Sanchez. Early in the year, they were ragging on Hunter.

Yet, since the AS break (if not longer), Ian Kinsler has been a below average offensive 2B and certainly a below average leadoff hitter. I am chastised for just mentioning that fact. Why the hypocrisy?

I agree with almost everything you say. I get ripped on all of the time for defending Kelly. He is a bench player that does his job to his ability. Romine is the same. It's not their fault that they are put into a situation that is above their talent level. Avila has been solid as well...I don't care for his strikeout rate but he gets on base and has had some big HRs this year. He has also been pretty good behind the plate and seems very good throwing out runners. Hunter...defensively he has been brutal...honestly, I can't wait until he is gone. I can't stand the ragging that the manager takes either....but it seems that I am on an island with that issue!

 

[Rebbiv]

Just a quick note for 2B defense.

Average MLB 2B for 152 games = 712 Total Chances

DET 2B for 152 games = 728 Total Chances (4.8 per game)


That is a difference of 16 total changes better than average, yet they rank 12th in MLB (6th in AL) in Total Chances. DET leads the majors with percentage of lefthanded hitters faced. Why is this important to this discussion? Because they tend to ground out to 2B more often than Righthanded hitters.


Ian Kinsler is having a career year defensively. I agree with that notion. However, his defense does not make up for the lack of offense/bonehead plays. Certainly not at $16 Mil a year.

And yes, Kinsler has been worse than I expected the 2nd half, but not by much. I wouldn't want him leading off, but now that Jackson is gone, there really isn't anyone else in a traditional sense.

 

[tomdalton22]

Just a quick note for 2B defense.

Average MLB 2B for 152 games = 712 Total Chances

DET 2B for 152 games = 728 Total Chances (4.8 per game)


That is a difference of 14 total changes better than average, yet they rank 12th in MLB (6th in AL) in Total Chances. DET leads the majors with percentage of lefthanded hitters faced. Why is this important to this discussion? Because they tend to ground out to 2B more often than Righthanded hitters.


Ian Kinsler is having a career year defensively. I agree with that notion. However, his defense does not make up for the lack of offense/bonehead plays. Certainly not at $16 Mil a year.

And yes, Kinsler has been worse than I expected the 2nd half, but not by much. I wouldn't want him leading off, but now that Jackson is gone, there really isn't anyone else in a traditional sense.

He is not a good lead off batter. Jackson wasn't either. The way that DD has put this team together I really doubt the will have a good leadoff batter. Stars and scrubs don't work in MLB!