Detroit's Downfall

[michiganalex]

at one point Detroit was once as big as Chicago. Now look at them. Coleman Young was the mayor when i was a little kid. sdid the downfall start with him and why did it happen? What can be done to help bring detroit back

 

[Thumb]

When was Detroit as big as Chicago?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_cities_in_the_United_States_by_population_by_decade

Never even close.

 

[Michchamp]

When was Detroit as big as Chicago?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_cities_in_the_United_States_by_population_by_decade

Never even close.

I always thought that too. Huh. at both cities' peak in 1950, Chicago was still almost double. color me surprised.

a lot went wrong with Detroit. I'd love to read a real scholarly analysis of it.

white flight/suburbanization was obviously a problem, and while all cities were affected by it, Detroit was impacted a lot worse. I think that is due to the auto companies having more sway in Detroit... more freeways were built (google map Downtown Detroit to see the way the freeways completely disrupt downtown & cut right through neighborhoods.), mass transit was DISMANTLED, and after that almost non-existent, cutting out a lot of regional cooperation and integration. Also, geographics play a role... voters moved past 8 Mile Road, and were lost to the City AND County.

other cities elected black mayors, other cities had corrupt mayors, but none collapsed like Detroit. Coleman Young might've been a bad mayor, but if the powers that be (i.e. the auto companies, Detroit-based banks, wealthy citizens, etc.) wanted him gone, they could've gotten rid of him. I think he lasted as long as he did because his existence helped fuel white flight, and all the developers, home builders, road construction companies, etc loved it.

or you could claim because Detroit got welfare everyone became lazy and poor... like Glenn Beck says. Even though... errr... this was a federal policy, and didn't similarly affect the rest of the country... don't think to hard about it.

 

[Michchamp]

jeez, compare chicago and detroit in satellite views... http://util.io/compare-maps

amazing how "green" much of Detroit is now.

also curious about the size of the cities... Chicago is 234 sq miles, Detroit is
142.9 sq miles. quite a bit bigger.

 

[michiganalex]

what can be done to fix Detroit?

 

[turok]

Amongst other factors that led to Detroit's economic demise,, the railroad that I worked for (Penn-Central) became a government supported entity that in order to receive funding, was forced to absorb several other failing but smaller railway companies, such as the Detroit Terminal, and others whom I can't recall from my faded memory of the late 70s. The new railroad was named Conrail, with its HQ in Philadelphia.

After Conrail finally made a profit for the first time in '80, it like Chrysler and much later GM was eventually taken off federal "life support". Conrail began to cut its workforce moving most jobs that were not physically necessary to be located @ local and longer haul freight operations to its HQ. This eventually resulted in the abandonment of the MCS except for Amtrak-related operations,

Eventually in the late 80s, Conrail was broken up and most of its equipment was sold to Canadian National and CSX. CSX then built sidetracks to newly/recently built foreign automakers' plants and factories in the South, which saved them millions if not billions in shipping costs, since it was MUCH cheaper to ship to the NE, Midwest, and NW/SW via rail than by using individual semi-trailer trucks.

This of course permitted the foreign automakers to grab an ever-increasing share of the automotive market in the US, while accelerating the decline of the domestics, with the most notable being AMC who soon went belly up. Another well-know railroad based in MI went out of business named Grand Trunk (whose name was "borrowed" by the popular MI rock band un the early 70s, being Grand Funk RR).

Automotive and related jobs in the Detroit metro area and outstate (Flint) began to disappear, creating a domino effect upon other businesses indirectly dependent upon the automotive industy By the mid-80s there were hundreds of thousands of native Michiganders soon being forced to move out of state to find employment. In TX, where many Michigan residents had traveled to to seek jobs, they were (often derisively) called "black-taggers" by native Texans.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I've read that when half the population left, they took 80% of the wealth with them.

 

[Michchamp]

what can be done to fix Detroit?

I think the best strategies are probably to shrink the city down to what can be reasonably managed by the tax base, and start getting business to relocate there and people to move there; one problem for not only Detroit, but all of SE Michigan is that urban sprawl & low population density means there's not enough tax revenue to support the infrastructure. the more spread out a population is, the more miles of road, pipes, power lines, etc. are needed, as well as more hospitals, schools, and similar services, since there's a limit to the amount of travel you can expect people to make to receive certain things.

In the short term, you're forced to raise taxes or cut services; alternatively maybe federal or state aid can make up for it, but in the long term, you've got to get more reasonably spaced out & dense populations. easier said than done when you have real estate developers supporting politicians that push for "growth" like County Executive No Neck, aka Brooks Patterson.

Amongst other factors that led to Detroit's economic demise,, the railroad that I worked for (Penn-Central) became a government supported entity that in order to receive funding, was forced to absorb several other failing but smaller railway companies, such as the Detroit Terminal, and others whom I can't recall from my faded memory of the late 70s. The new railroad was named Conrail, with its HQ in Philadelphia.

After Conrail finally made a profit for the first time in '80, it like Chrysler and much later GM was eventually taken off federal "life support". Conrail began to cut its workforce moving most jobs that were not physically necessary to be located @ local and longer haul freight operations to its HQ. This eventually resulted in the abandonment of the MCS except for Amtrak-related operations,

Eventually in the late 80s, Conrail was broken up and most of its equipment was sold to Canadian National and CSX. CSX then built sidetracks to newly/recently built foreign automakers' plants and factories in the South, which saved them millions if not billions in shipping costs, since it was MUCH cheaper to ship to the NE, Midwest, and NW/SW via rail than by using individual semi-trailer trucks.

This of course permitted the foreign automakers to grab an ever-increasing share of the automotive market in the US, while accelerating the decline of the domestics, with the most notable being AMC who soon went belly up. Another well-know railroad based in MI went out of business named Grand Trunk (whose name was "borrowed" by the popular MI rock band un the early 70s, being Grand Funk RR).

Automotive and related jobs in the Detroit metro area and outstate (Flint) began to disappear, creating a domino effect upon other businesses indirectly dependent upon the automotive industy By the mid-80s there were hundreds of thousands of native Michiganders soon being forced to move out of state to find employment. In TX, where many Michigan residents had traveled to to seek jobs, they were (often derisively) called "black-taggers" by native Texans.

I don't know for sure, but I don't think it just economics; certainly that played some role, but other cities managed to avoid huge crashes like the extent of what happened in Detroit.

 

[turok]

what can be done to fix Detroit?

Consolidate its remaining population to areas/sections of the city that have a larger/higher concentration of residents. The deserted areas could revert to what they were prior to being developed and settled, such as farmland, marshland, ponds, creeks, prairies, and (small) forests. Then re-introduce wildlife to these natural habitats.

Happy hunting/fishing/farming!!)

 

[turok]

I don't know for sure, but I don't think it just economics; certainly that played some role, but other cities managed to avoid huge crashes like the extent of what happened in Detroit.

Yeah, well I prefaced my post that economics was just part of what caused Detroit's decline. The large areas of mostly undeveloped land located mainly west and north of the city provided an escape route for most from violent crime, robberies/burglaries, drug dealing, and paying city income and high property taxes. Migration out of the city didn't hinder the growth of construction and property developers. along with small and medium-sized businesses who relocated or established in the burbs and exurbs. Also, the opportunity for parents to send their children to newer and smaller city/township grade and high schools. that weren't part of the lower/poorly rated Detroit public school system likely was a big enticement.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I wonder if it would be easier to simply cede land and allow the declaration of new towns.

 

[Thumb]

It might be too late. The only way to save Detroit would be to get industry and manufacturing jobs to come to Detroit, but the only way to land them would be to offer massive tax breaks to them, and it's the tax revenues that are needed in the first place. Catch-22.

 

[michiganalex]

back when Boeing was looking for a site for their 2nd 787 Dreamliner plant, I always wondered why Detroit or Michigan didn't get in on the bidding. Detroit City Airport would have been ideal for the site