Losing Tulloch

[specialteams]

I've pretty much accepted the fact that Tulloch is probably gone in an effort to keep Avril.

Real shame because with the loss of Tulloch, our linebacker corps goes from decent to well below average. I mean seriously... odds are that Levy-Tulloch-Durant will look a hell of a lot more intimidating than ?-Levy-Durant.

I was definitely on the resign Avril train previously... but if we resign Avril and lose Tulloch, our run defense is just going to be that much more brutal to watch next year. Would be a much bigger blow to our defense than simply losing Avril.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Losing Avril would almost instantly upgrade the run D.

Keeping Avril and losing Tulloch would be disasterous for our run D. It would go from pretty bad to pathetic.

I wish our priority was keeping Tulloch long term and letting Cliff walk. Oh, and losing the "wide 9" But it doesn't seem to be that way. IMO, if we keep Avril, lose Tulloch and keep Gunthers wide nine....it wont matter much what we do in FA and the draft....this D is still going to be average AT BEST in 2012.

What do I know.

 

[thehippo73]

Hopefully we are posturing with Avril to get a team to want us to franchise him, so they can trade us for him. In that scenario, we could keep Tulloch. But if we keep Avril over Tulloch, our defense will suffer for it.

 

[coel73]

Surely there is NO WAY that they will let Tulloch walk. I love what Avril brings as far as the pass rush goes, but losing Tulloch would be a huge blow in terms of overall defense. Dude was a tackling maniac and cleaned up when plays ended up anywhere near him. I can't see them letting Tulloch go.

 

[cheeno]

Surely there is NO WAY that they will let Tulloch walk. I love what Avril brings as far as the pass rush goes, but losing Tulloch would be a huge blow in terms of overall defense. Dude was a tackling maniac and cleaned up when plays ended up anywhere near him. I can't see them letting Tulloch go.

They may have no choice in the matter. If they can't get deals done with their target guys CJ, Avril and Wright??? in time and he hits FA he may get a deal that the Lions can't match.

In regards to Tulloch vs. Avril I agree with those who say Tulloch was worth more to the team last year, however he may not be worth more to the team than his replacement vs. Avril's replacement (sabermetrics idea of WAR). The fact is LBs always walk, even the very top guys are often cut, traded, hit FA, or are forced into early retirement. Young pass rushers with proven upside almost never hit FA. The reason being they are hard to replace. And if you think two situational spot rushers are going to come in and do just as well then G/L, and don't forget that you have a 30 plus year old DE as the bookend that needs to be replaced within a year or 2 max.

edit: Bart Scott being replaced as I post this.

 

[martmay]

They only possible way to afford Tulloch is for WC Ford to give large signing bonuses to CJ & Avril, outside that no cap room

 

[mhughes0021]

They only possible way to afford Tulloch is for WC Ford to give large signing bonuses to CJ & Avril, outside that no cap room

mm is doing everything ass backwards. Why is he even talking about resigning wright when tullochs deal isnt done yet?! Take that 3.5 mil and put it toward tullochs 6-7 mil. avril and wright shouldnt even be in the equation until cj and tulloch are done.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I think I trust MM, and no not Martha , more than you mhughes. No offense. And I agree with cheeno on this, young DE are a commodity over a Mike LB.

 

[tonyballs]

We need Tulloch but blaming Avril for this TEAM'S pathetic run-defense is ignorant. The whole fn team doesn't play the run well. Who plays the run well on this team? From me just watching, i'd have to go with guys like Hill and Tulloch. THAT'S IT!!! I know there's a stat guy out there with numbers on who plays the run and who doesn't. Let's see them.

Bottom line, the whole TEAM (get it? TEAM) is beyond brutal at run-defense.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

We need Tulloch but blaming Avril for this TEAM'S pathetic run-defense is ignorant. The whole fn team doesn't play the run well. Who plays the run well on this team? From me just watching, i'd have to go with guys like Hill and Tulloch. THAT'S IT!!! I know there's a stat guy out there with numbers on who plays the run and who doesn't. Let's see them.

Bottom line, the whole TEAM (get it? TEAM) is beyond brutal at run-defense.

I read through the posts again and I don't see where anyone put the sole blame for our bad run D on Avril.

I don't care if you value keeping Avril more than I do....to each his own....but to deny the fact that he is turrble against the run is as "ignorant" as saying he is the sole reason it is bad.

The fact is....he is BAD against the run....and if there is an upside to losing him to FA....it would be that our run defense would almost certainly be better for it.

THATS IT!!

 

[specialteams]

We need Tulloch but blaming Avril for this TEAM'S pathetic run-defense is ignorant. The whole fn team doesn't play the run well. Who plays the run well on this team? From me just watching, i'd have to go with guys like Hill and Tulloch. THAT'S IT!!! I know there's a stat guy out there with numbers on who plays the run and who doesn't. Let's see them.

Bottom line, the whole TEAM (get it? TEAM) is beyond brutal at run-defense.

Never did I say that Avril is solely to blame for our bad run defense. In my opinion, our best defensive player (Suh) plays just as bad against the run as Avril.

All Im saying is that losing Tulloch+keeping Avril hurts our run defense a whole lot more than keeping Tulloch+losing Avril does. And based on the last couple games, most people are pointing to our pass defense as the biggest defensive concern, but our rush defense is a whole lot worse. I can understand Drew Brees destroying us... but its a whole lot harder for me to accept Pierre Thomas absolutely gashing us.

I love what Mayhews done for the team so far... but if keeping Corey Williams prevents us from pursuing Avril and/or Tulloch... then the guy had made his first Millenesque move

 

[lions2011]

not sure when people will understand that this GM and HC have gone all in on the defensive line....it's Schwatz's whole fucking philosophy...RUSH THE QB.

it's why they said they are gonna keep Corey Williams and Avril is a top priorty to re-sign , they obviously don't mind a patchwork back 7.

I hope to hell they find a way to get Tulloch back into the fold , but i just have a hard time seeing how.

 

[lp4ever41]

Free agent WLB Geno Hayes is "not among the team

 

[lions2011]

[quote="lp4ever41":xi1losz8]Free agent WLB Geno Hayes is "not among the team

 

[lionsFTW]

not sure when people will understand that this GM and HC have gone all in on the defensive line....it's Schwatz's whole fucking philosophy...RUSH THE QB.

it's why they said they are gonna keep Corey Williams and Avril is a top priorty to re-sign , they obviously don't mind a patchwork back 7.

I hope to hell they find a way to get Tulloch back into the fold , but i just have a hard time seeing how.

yeah slicks pretty spot on here. their whole approach is similar to what the colts did with Manning. give our young stud QB a ton of weapons to put points on the board and hope to hell you can force other teams to abandon the run and play catch up throwing the ball.

then if/when you do that you basically just send your front four on a pass rush every time and hopefully force teams to make mistakes while playing catch up via sacks/pressures and turnovers.

its just scary that they've shown so little interest in really protecting Staff with blue chippers cause if he goes down this whole approach crumbles.

 

[tonyballs]

We need Tulloch but blaming Avril for this TEAM'S pathetic run-defense is ignorant. The whole fn team doesn't play the run well. Who plays the run well on this team? From me just watching, i'd have to go with guys like Hill and Tulloch. THAT'S IT!!! I know there's a stat guy out there with numbers on who plays the run and who doesn't. Let's see them.

Bottom line, the whole TEAM (get it? TEAM) is beyond brutal at run-defense.

I read through the posts again and I don't see where anyone put the sole blame for our bad run D on Avril.

I don't care if you value keeping Avril more than I do....to each his own....but to deny the fact that he is turrble against the run is as "ignorant" as saying he is the sole reason it is bad.

The fact is....he is BAD against the run....and if there is an upside to losing him to FA....it would be that our run defense would almost certainly be better for it.

THATS IT!!

Not once did i say Avril was good against the run. I know he's horrible vs the run. SO IS THE REST OF THIS PATHETIC DEFENSE. That's my point...understand? One guy doesn't make or break a defense...sorry. To say losing Avril upgrades our run defense is very 'ignorant'. How do you know? Who replaces him? You don't have a clue, do you?

Listen, i'm all for signing Tulloch because i think he's a solid LB, but one of them (Tulloch or Avril) are going. That's inevitable, and from the way Schwartz likes to run his "D", it looks like passrushing means a whole lot more to him.

 

[fedexgooch78]

I read through the posts again and I don't see where anyone put the sole blame for our bad run D on Avril.

I don't care if you value keeping Avril more than I do....to each his own....but to deny the fact that he is turrble against the run is as "ignorant" as saying he is the sole reason it is bad.

The fact is....he is BAD against the run....and if there is an upside to losing him to FA....it would be that our run defense would almost certainly be better for it.

THATS IT!!

Not once did i say Avril was good against the run. I know he's horrible vs the run. SO IS THE REST OF THIS PATHETIC DEFENSE. That's my point...understand? One guy doesn't make or break a defense...sorry. To say losing Avril upgrades our run defense is very 'ignorant'. How do you know? Who replaces him? You don't have a clue, do you?

Listen, i'm all for signing Tulloch because i think he's a solid LB, but one of them (Tulloch or Avril) are going. That's inevitable, and from the way Schwartz likes to run his "D", it looks like passrushing means a whole lot more to him.

I will be super pissed if Avril does a "contract year" type season followed by a dud. Motherfucker is getting paid, he needs to keep improving. If we are the one's paying him, that is. Fuck him if he walks. I bet if they let Tulloch walk, it will be a LB in rd 2, with CB in Rd 1...since I read an article about how they liked Wright in the slot. Lot of fucking money for a slot CB though if you ask me.

 

[tonyballs]

Not once did i say Avril was good against the run. I know he's horrible vs the run. SO IS THE REST OF THIS PATHETIC DEFENSE. That's my point...understand? One guy doesn't make or break a defense...sorry. To say losing Avril upgrades our run defense is very 'ignorant'. How do you know? Who replaces him? You don't have a clue, do you?

Listen, i'm all for signing Tulloch because i think he's a solid LB, but one of them (Tulloch or Avril) are going. That's inevitable, and from the way Schwartz likes to run his "D", it looks like passrushing means a whole lot more to him.

I will be super pissed if Avril does a "contract year" type season followed by a dud. Motherfucker is getting paid, he needs to keep improving. If we are the one's paying him, that is. Fuck him if he walks. I bet if they let Tulloch walk, it will be a LB in rd 2, with CB in Rd 1...since I read an article about how they liked Wright in the slot. Lot of fucking money for a slot CB though if you ask me.

Don't you think Avril is pissed as well? He's already played on the tag and he "proved" he's worth more money. Now they're going to tag him again. It's all business and i understand that, but now Mayhew is fucked. He has to re-sign Tulloch, Avril and Wright. I don't see it happening. I'm almost positive the Eagles outbid us for Tulloch. You know they can't let all 3 walk.....

 

[mhughes0021]

not sure when people will understand that this GM and HC have gone all in on the defensive line....it's Schwatz's whole fucking philosophy...RUSH THE QB.

it's why they said they are gonna keep Corey Williams and Avril is a top priorty to re-sign , they obviously don't mind a patchwork back 7.

I hope to hell they find a way to get Tulloch back into the fold , but i just have a hard time seeing how.

yeah slicks pretty spot on here. their whole approach is similar to what the colts did with Manning. give our young stud QB a ton of weapons to put points on the board and hope to hell you can force other teams to abandon the run and play catch up throwing the ball.

then if/when you do that you basically just send your front four on a pass rush every time and hopefully force teams to make mistakes while playing catch up via sacks/pressures and turnovers.

its just scary that they've shown so little interest in really protecting Staff with blue chippers cause if he goes down this whole approach crumbles.

Pass rush was pretty horrid the last third of the season and once we played the good qbs they carved us up. The anomaly being the charger game where the dline sucked ass and the seconday somehow played out of their minds and defended the pass ridiculously well.

I personally never saw a team where 4 guys on the line made the other 7 better to where it made them a top defense....if thats their plan and its never happened before in the history of the NFL than more power too them but when your target is to resign eric wright and youre not trying to sign a leader of your defense like Tulloch because your content with Levy....welp they need a different plan.

 

[lions2011]

yeah slicks pretty spot on here. their whole approach is similar to what the colts did with Manning. give our young stud QB a ton of weapons to put points on the board and hope to hell you can force other teams to abandon the run and play catch up throwing the ball.

then if/when you do that you basically just send your front four on a pass rush every time and hopefully force teams to make mistakes while playing catch up via sacks/pressures and turnovers.

its just scary that they've shown so little interest in really protecting Staff with blue chippers cause if he goes down this whole approach crumbles.

Pass rush was pretty horrid the last third of the season and once we played the good qbs they carved us up. The anomaly being the charger game where the dline sucked ass and the seconday somehow played out of their minds and defended the pass ridiculously well.

I personally never saw a team where 4 guys on the line made the other 7 better to where it made them a top defense....if thats their plan and its never happened before in the history of the NFL than more power too them but when your target is to resign eric wright and youre not trying to sign a leader of your defense like Tulloch because your content with Levy....welp they need a different plan.

what do you mean if that's their plan ???

they drafted a fucking DT last year after drafting one at #2 the year before and trading for one (williams ).....they also extended KVB and traded for a DE ( Jackson )......the whole time only really pickong up an OG ( Sims ) after drafting a franchise QB #1 overall in their first draft.

he has came out and said his defense is built around rushing the QB and getting the opposing team to throw the ball earlier then they want and make mistakes.

it's their ONE AND ONLY plan on defense.