Obamacare - conservative silver lining

[redandguilty]

I recently read an NPR piece on disability (http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/). I was unaware of the scope of it. 14 million people. The article calls it the disability-industrial complex. The article also suggests that disability is a better option than a full-time minimum wage job. $13,000 per year + Medicare vs $15,000 and generally no health insurance. At least with Obamacare, working will pay slightly better than not working.

 

[Michchamp]

it was kinda funny... a couple years ago, there was some right wing blogger who got bad press in Alabama or Mississippi (one of those states) for inciting violence against democratic party members. i think his followers shattered some windows of the local state rep's office or something like that.

the press dug into the guy's background, and it turned out that at the same time he was railing against big government, entitlement programs, and the like, he was sitting at home collecting federal disability insurance. He hadn't had a job in years!

but that being said, yeah, I've read disability abuse is the new welfare abuse. there probably does need to be some serious reform, especially on the end of the courts. I worked on some pretty extensive lawsuits involving workers' comp/disability claims, and have seen claims that drag on and on for years, and claimants who even go so far as to have surgery just to stay on the dole. In other cases there is evidence of fraud (e.g. undisputed statements that the injury happened off the job, pictures of "disabled" persons water skiing, bungee jumping, dancing in Times Square, etc.) and they're still able to keep collecting for months on end.

the reform maybe needs to be on the judicial end... clearing the backlog of cases, allowing administrative courts more time to examine evidence, conduct hearings, etc.

 

[redandguilty]

I think it's all masking a fact we don't want to deal with. We're not competitive in industries that require low skills labor and there aren't enough jobs for low skills workers. I really think it's analogous to Dutch Disease, but finance and intellectual property are equivalent to the market dominating natural resources that make everything else non-competitive.

 

[redandguilty]

I'm just shocked at the scale. $260 Billion a year. Of the people on disability in 2011, 1% found work and got off it in 2012.

 

[turok]

I have been on disability since '06 and would much rather still be employed. I was on the verge of becoming promoted to a mechanic @ the USPS when I became seriously ill. As a result, and despite all of my efforts. I soon lost almost everything (house, vehicles, savings), that I had worked looong hours on the graveyard shift for years to acquire, not to mention the amount of time and $$$ spent making upgrades and improvements on my foreclosed home.

It is extremely unlikely that I will be able to become a homeowner ever again, since I am only receiving 40% of what my average annual income was, minus OT. @ age 62, I will age qualify to receive 100% of my disability pension, but doubt that I will live to be that age due to the nature of my illness.

Being disabled is not the laid-back, on easy street panacea that some people think it is, and my case is still being reviewed by SS biennially.

 

[Michchamp]

I have been on disability since '06 and would much rather still be employed. I was on the verge of becoming promoted to a mechanic @ the USPS when I became seriously ill. As a result, and despite all of my efforts. I soon lost almost everything (house, vehicles, savings), that I had worked looong hours on the graveyard shift for years to acquire, not to mention the amount of time and $$$ spent making upgrades and improvements on my foreclosed home.

It is extremely unlikely that I will be able to become a homeowner ever again, since I am only receiving 40% of what my average annual income was, minus OT. @ age 62, I will age qualify to receive 100% of my disability pension, but doubt that I will live to be that age due to the nature of my illness.

Being disabled is not the laid-back, on easy street panacea that some people think it is, and my case is still being reviewed by SS biennially.

that's awful... and a bad break. sorry to hear about it.

That's also rough you have bi-annual reviews, especially after being familiar with some pretty egregious cases of fraud (though in my experience, those were all related to worker's comp issues, not public disability payments.)

to be clear, I think the reform needs to come on the judicial end in catching and preventing fraud, and I have no problem with the program or disability aid themselves... after all, we're all just a bad day away from permanent partial or total disability.

when these things do come up and start getting publicity (i.e. when something suddenly becomes a "crisis" in DC) I have learned to be skeptical of the claims and motivations of our elected officials and the special interests that direct their efforts, and this should be no different.

 

[redandguilty]

Being disabled is not the laid-back, on easy street panacea that some people think it is...

That's an important part of the message. This isn't about the Regan era "welfare queen". Even in the cases of people that could have found a way to work decades ago but can't in today's market, this is a symptom of larger forces at work, not driven by imagined masses of legally sophisticated lazy fraudsters.

 

[Michchamp]

...

when these things do come up and start getting publicity (i.e. when something suddenly becomes a "crisis" in DC) I have learned to be skeptical of the claims and motivations of our elected officials and the special interests that direct their efforts, and this should be no different.

I suppose the figure Red cites should be put in context.

is there really a "crisis"?

is this number "shocking"?

is this something that needs to be fixed, or are the disability obligations of government just the next line in the social safety net that's being slowly gutted by Washington so they can cut the tax obligations of the wealthy further?

 

[Michchamp]

That's an important part of the message. This isn't about the Regan era "welfare queen". Even in the cases of people that could have found a way to work decades ago but can't in today's market, this is a symptom of larger forces at work, not driven by imagined masses of legally sophisticated lazy fraudsters.

even in the reagan era, the idea of the "Welfare Queen" was more or less a rhetorical flourish. The legion of people driving cadillacs and smoking dope while living opulent lifestyles alongside Donald Trump simply by collecting welfare did not really exist.

 

[turok]

The problem is that people who are on the gov't dole can drop so far down the hole financially, that it becomes very difficult, if not next to impossible to climb back up and out to become independent and productive citizens again. Gaps in one's resume. whether for reasons beyond their control or not, can result in it immediately getting round-filed.Many employers won't even take a glance at a resume if the applicant is unemployed nowadays.

We have only recently been able to again afford to purchase a cheap used vehicle w/ high mileage and only PLPD for insurance coverage, so that we no longer have to walk (in pain) back and forth to the nearby grocery store and lug food and necessities back home, frequently in bad weather. Neither my or my wife's much more well-off relatives have ever offered to drive us anywhere, even while knowing what our kinda desperate situation was, nor even stop over to visit with us once in awhile. We knew only one person in our rented condo complex out of the unfriendly rest, who would most often gladly drive us anywhere...but he works all day 6 days per week, and he gets home fairly late. Another neighbor who had helped us out once in a while, passed away over a year ago. Renting a vehicle once, much less twice a month for a few days, so that we could make it to our doctor appointments and obtain meds at pharmacies was a very (and increasingly) expensive budget-buster. My now long unemployed wife could not look for work or make it to any job interviews w/o reliable transportation, so she was/has been just SOL in earning any wages, or finding "gainful" employment.

I kinda despise the brave new US 21st century, to be truthful, and really would not want to be just beginning my prime earning years in it. Only those jobs that are nailed down here by purely physical necessity are still "relatively" secure, but many are vulnerable to technological advances, robotics, and automation. I am actually quite grateful that I will have lived more than likely, over half of my life in the 20th.

 

[redandguilty]

I suppose the figure Red cites should be put in context.

is there really a "crisis"?

is this number "shocking"?

is this something that needs to be fixed, or are the disability obligations of government just the next line in the social safety net that's being slowly gutted by Washington so they can cut the tax obligations of the wealthy further?

14 million is just over 10% of the workforce. To me, that's shocking. If 7-8% are unemployed, I would have guessed maybe 2% were on disability.

 

[redandguilty]

It's the resource curse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse

 

[redandguilty]

I know a guy that lost an arm that had to go in once a year to show that his arm hadn't grown back. ...I mean, reevaluate the disability.

 

[Michchamp]

I know a guy that lost an arm that had to go in once a year to show that his arm hadn't grown back. ...I mean, reevaluate the disability.

well... what if he received a bionic arm that essentially made him whole again, and indeed, was more capable than he was with his original arm?

 

[Michchamp]

...

I kinda despise the brave new US 21st century, to be truthful, and really would not want to be just beginning my prime earning years in it. Only those jobs that are nailed down here by purely physical necessity are still "relatively" secure, but many are vulnerable to technological advances, robotics, and automation. I am actually quite grateful that I will have lived more than likely, over half of my life in the 20th.

I think it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[turok]

Amputations have been overcome by many who went on to become successful and productive citizens, but not all are able to do so b/c of what type(s) of work they were qualified, experienced and capable of performing. Also many have had multiple medical issues that were related and/or unrelated to their needing a limb or limbs removed (or was the result of injury/accident), such as diabetes.

 

[redandguilty]

well... what if he received a bionic arm that essentially made him whole again, and indeed, was more capable than he was with his original arm?

Then he would have succeeded in his research. I'm sure he be happy to self-report the improvement in that case.

In fact, I don't even think he'd complain if someone just called him once a year to ask about his arm. Problem was it was always an all-day thing getting to the right doctor to do the evaluation.

 

[redandguilty]

I think it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

I obviously agree.

 

[Michchamp]

never mind.

 

[redandguilty]

Amputations have been overcome by many who went on to become successful and productive citizens, but not all are able to do so b/c of what type(s) of work they were qualified, experienced and capable of performing. Also many have had multiple medical issues that were related and/or unrelated to their needing a limb or limbs removed (or was the result of injury/accident), such as diabetes.

In this case, we're not talking about SS disability. Losing an arm impacted my friend's career as a Marine. He's worked on prosthetic research since then, but needed to be evaluated periodically for military health benefits for a few years. I think that nonsense is over now.