The real economy...

[Spartanmack]

Maybe Obama and co should press pause on their victory lap. seems the job creator in chief has actually given us an entire generation of Bernie Sanders types - dirty, smelly hippies of the twenty teens. although to be fair to them, they're victims of a weak economy, as opposed to being lazy shiftless bulbs...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/for-you...the-norm/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6g&linkId=24818910

 

[sggatecl]

While the recession and weak recovery may have fed into the trend, forcing some young Americans to live at home if they had trouble finding a job, the shift started long before the most recent economic downturn, Fry said.

The share of young men and women living with a spouse or partner has been falling since the 1960s, the research found. About 56 percent of young men and 68 percent of young women lived with a partner or spouse in 1960, while only about one out of five still lived with their parents.

But after 1960, the share of young Americans living in their own homes with a spouse or partner started to dwindle. At the same time, the labor market was transforming, becoming less rewarding for men and especially men without college degrees. The labor force participation rate for men of all ages slipped from about 83 percent in 1960 to slightly more than 69 percent now.

Wages for men have also stagnated over the past few decades. On an inflation-adjusted basis, men earned median annual wages of $52,421 in 1973, which had declined to slightly more than $50,000 in 2013. Women's wages and labor force participation, on the other hand, have largely increased during the same period.

Damn, Obama has been president even longer than I realized.

 

[Spartanmack]

Damn, Obama has been president even longer than I realized.

no, the point just went straight over your head. Again.

what the fools are sayong and the sheep are eating up is we have been through an amazing recovery. the reality is far different. and the trend is going in the wrong direction...

"Young adults today are having a different transition into adulthood than previous generations," Pew researcher Richard Fry said. "In previous generations, setting up new families was a basic thing young adults were doing. Even in the 1980s, half of them were married. Today's young adults are moving away from that."

Though this trend began in advance of the latest economic turmoil, Fry said things have definitely worsened more recently, especially for men

 

[sggatecl]

no, the point just went straight over your head. Again.

 

[sggatecl]

TIL that if you're not signing your life away to another person in your 20s, you're a "dirty, smelly hippie."

 

[Spartanmack]

TIL that if you're not signing your life away to another person in your 20s, you're a "dirty, smelly hippie."

sadly, you learned nothing. what you should have learned is that a greater number of young people are living with their parents longer, out of necessity, not because they're making a conscious choice about marriage. But hey, no big deal, a greater number of entitled dependents is just what this country needs, right? And I said they're the "dirty, smelly hippies of the twenty teens" and explained that they were different because it's more their plight than their choice, not that they were dirty, smelly hippies, like Bernie Sanders.

 

[grandy]

I think the article headline is a bit misleading. It seems to me that the more significant trend is the massive drop in people living with a spouse/partner (down 30-35% since the 60s), rather than the increase in young people living with their parents (up 10-12% since the 60s), which seems to indicate more people are living on their own instead of with a partner or their parents. While it's technically true that more young adults are living with their parents instead of a spouse/partner, it really has less to do with an increase in young adults living with their parents.

I also think the 18-34 age range is an awfully large and diverse group to be gathering data from. There's a huge difference between 18-22 year olds fresh out of high school or in college and 25-34 year olds. I'd be much more interested in a breakdown by smaller age ranges rather than lumping everyone together.

While I'm glad that a topic like this can lead to interesting discussions on the state of the economy for young adults compared to 40-50 years ago, I'm disappointed in the lack of detail for this study.

 

[Spartanmack]

I think the article headline is a bit misleading. It seems to me that the more significant trend is the massive drop in people living with a spouse/partner (down 30-35% since the 60s), rather than the increase in young people living with their parents (up 10-12% since the 60s), which seems to indicate more people are living on their own instead of with a partner or their parents. While it's technically true that more young adults are living with their parents instead of a spouse/partner, it really has less to do with an increase in young adults living with their parents.

I also think the 18-34 age range is an awfully large and diverse group to be gathering data from. There's a huge difference between 18-22 year olds fresh out of high school or in college and 25-34 year olds. I'd be much more interested in a breakdown by smaller age ranges rather than lumping everyone together.

While I'm glad that a topic like this can lead to interesting discussions on the state of the economy for young adults compared to 40-50 years ago, I'm disappointed in the lack of detail for this study.

Leaving aside the single parent problem, what's the problem with people living without a spouse/partner? I think the decrease in the number of people living with a spouse/partner is problematic, particularly because of the increase in single parent households but choosing not to live with a spouse/partner is not what's driving the increase in the number of young adults living with their parents. That number isn't going up because they're staying single - it's going up because of necessity. That's a problem.

Also, I don't think birth rates have increased dramatically if at all - haven't they been going down since the 50s? Assuming that's true, I don't think controlling for the 18-22 year olds would yield a significantly different result. But their may be valuable information in a breakdown between people 0-5 years out of college and the late 20s to mid 30s folks - I wonder how different those trends are.

 

[grandy]

Leaving aside the single parent problem, what's the problem with people living without a spouse/partner? I think the decrease in the number of people living with a spouse/partner is problematic, particularly because of the increase in single parent households but choosing not to live with a spouse/partner is not what's driving the increase in the number of young adults living with their parents. That number isn't going up because they're staying single - it's going up because of necessity. That's a problem.

Unfortunately this poll is extremely vague on other living arrangements, it would be interesting to see what percentage of young adults are living on their own as single parents compared to the childless.

I think the decrease in spouse/partners living together requires more detail. I'd like to believe that people are simply more cautious these days and not making potentially disastrous financial decisions just to live with a spouse/partner, but I doubt that's always the case. With a high divorce rate and fears of an economic downturn, I wouldn't be surprised if young adults are a little hesitant to commit to contractual living arrangements or mortgages. I'd be interested to see how much of this is socially-driven vs economically-driven.

Also, I don't think birth rates have increased dramatically if at all - haven't they been going down since the 50s? Assuming that's true, I don't think controlling for the 18-22 year olds would yield a significantly different result. But their may be valuable information in a breakdown between people 0-5 years out of college and the late 20s to mid 30s folks - I wonder how different those trends are.

As someone near that age range, I'm just very skeptical of how they gathered information regarding living arrangements. With a heavy focus/push to go off to college these days (which I don't entirely approve of), many 18-22 year olds are living in dorms/apartments, usually assisted by a combination of loans and parental contributions...is that considered neither living with parents or with a partner/spouse? if so, how much will that skew the data? I think it's a grey area and those circumstances alone make them quite different from 25-34 year olds. I just see it as different stages of life, which I think should be looked at individually.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Here's a link to the Pew Report instead of the CBS article if anyone wants to dig into it more:

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016...r-living-arrangements-for-18-to-34-year-olds/

 

[Gulo Blue]

With a heavy focus/push to go off to college these days (which I don't entirely approve of), many 18-22 year olds are living in dorms/apartments, usually assisted by a combination of loans and parental contributions...is that considered neither living with parents or with a partner/spouse?

They were lumped into the live alone group.

"The remaining 36 percent either live alone, are single parents, or live in dorms or with other relatives."

 

[Spartanmack]

Unfortunately this poll is extremely vague on other living arrangements, it would be interesting to see what percentage of young adults are living on their own as single parents compared to the childless.

I think the decrease in spouse/partners living together requires more detail. I'd like to believe that people are simply more cautious these days and not making potentially disastrous financial decisions just to live with a spouse/partner, but I doubt that's always the case. With a high divorce rate and fears of an economic downturn, I wouldn't be surprised if young adults are a little hesitant to commit to contractual living arrangements or mortgages. I'd be interested to see how much of this is socially-driven vs economically-driven.



As someone near that age range, I'm just very skeptical of how they gathered information regarding living arrangements. With a heavy focus/push to go off to college these days (which I don't entirely approve of), many 18-22 year olds are living in dorms/apartments, usually assisted by a combination of loans and parental contributions...is that considered neither living with parents or with a partner/spouse? if so, how much will that skew the data? I think it's a grey area and those circumstances alone make them quite different from 25-34 year olds. I just see it as different stages of life, which I think should be looked at individually.

I doubt it's a social/cultural phenomenon. I'd be really surprised if it wasn't mostly an economic decision - lack of jobs or high paying jobs. Anecdotally, virtually everyone I knew moved out of their parents houses right after or soon after college. I don't recall more than 1 or 2 colleagues living at home when I was in my 20s - that is until I moved to New York and learned that east coast Italian guys all live at home and have their mom's wait on them hand and foot until their wedding day.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I doubt it's a social/cultural phenomenon. I'd be really surprised if it wasn't mostly an economic decision - lack of jobs or high paying jobs. Anecdotally, virtually everyone I knew moved out of their parents houses right after or soon after college. I don't recall more than 1 or 2 colleagues living at home when I was in my 20s - that is until I moved to New York and learned that east coast Italian guys all live at home and have their mom's wait on them hand and foot until their wedding day.

I remember reading years ago that Italy was seeing a shift where sons were living this way longer, waiting before getting married, being taken care of by their mothers well into their late 20's-early 30's.

This isn't the article I read, but same thing:

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/52-italian-men-live-mothers-report-article-1.1519879

"Figures show that 52% of Italian men aged between 25 and 34 were still living at home."

Similar article from 2004:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5761647/ns/world_news/t/what-keeping-italian-men-home/

 

[Spartan23MSU]

I doubt it's a social/cultural phenomenon. I'd be really surprised if it wasn't mostly an economic decision - lack of jobs or high paying jobs. Anecdotally, virtually everyone I knew moved out of their parents houses right after or soon after college. I don't recall more than 1 or 2 colleagues living at home when I was in my 20s - that is until I moved to New York and learned that east coast Italian guys all live at home and have their mom's wait on them hand and foot until their wedding day.

"Heard he got into a hang gliding accident, what an idiot" "Maaaa, wheres the meatloaf?!!"

 

[TheVictors]

Millennials are pussies

 

[TheVictors]

I doubt it's a social/cultural phenomenon. I'd be really surprised if it wasn't mostly an economic decision - lack of jobs or high paying jobs. Anecdotally, virtually everyone I knew moved out of their parents houses right after or soon after college. I don't recall more than 1 or 2 colleagues living at home when I was in my 20s - that is until I moved to New York and learned that east coast Italian guys all live at home and have their mom's wait on them hand and foot until their wedding day.

True.

 

[Spartanmack]

I remember reading years ago that Italy was seeing a shift where sons were living this way longer, waiting before getting married, being taken care of by their mothers well into their late 20's-early 30's.

This isn't the article I read, but same thing:

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/52-italian-men-live-mothers-report-article-1.1519879

"Figures show that 52% of Italian men aged between 25 and 34 were still living at home."

Similar article from 2004:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5761647/ns/world_news/t/what-keeping-italian-men-home/

I remember reading an article about that awhile back as well - due to weakness and lack of jobs in the Italian economy, young adults (mostly men) in Italy were suing their parents for support and the right to stay at home and sponge off them as young adults.

Here in the US, non-Italian coworkers and I would make fun of the single Italian Americans for living at home and treating their "mamas" like servants but they looked at us like we had 3 heads - saw no shame in it whatsoever. And it's not like it was a few introverts or nerds - they were otherwise pretty normal people. The weirdest part was they would bring random chicks home from the bar and have them spend the night and their moms would make breakfast for them and their guest the next morning.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I remember reading an article about that awhile back as well - due to weakness and lack of jobs in the Italian economy, young adults (mostly men) in Italy were suing their parents for support and the right to stay at home and sponge off them as young adults.

Here in the US, non-Italian coworkers and I would make fun of them for it but they looked at us like we had 3 heads - saw no shame in it whatsoever. And it's not like it was a few introverts or nerds - they were otherwise pretty normal people. The weirdest part was they would bring random chicks home from the bar and have them spend the night and their moms would make breakfast for them and their guest the next morning.

 

[Spartanmack]

That's good. My brother raves about that show, particularly that character. I've haven't seen it much but what I have seen has been very good. Maybe i should try to find it on netflix or amazon - the wife has been complaining that the shows we watch (Game of Thrones, Washington Spies, Mad Dogs, Family Guy, etc) are either too violent or vulgar or both.

 

[Michchamp]

Maybe Obama and co should press pause on their victory lap. seems the job creator in chief has actually given us an entire generation of Bernie Sanders types - dirty, smelly hippies of the twenty teens. although to be fair to them, they're victims of a weak economy, as opposed to being lazy shiftless bulbs...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/for-you...the-norm/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6g&linkId=24818910

I think the conclusions you come to here are ridiculous.

it's nothing Obama did; and those kids aren't moving home because it's their choice, they can't find jobs that pay enough to support themselves independently.

I think this will only get worse over time, as even more jobs are outsourced or automated.

there is a real crisis developing in this country - and its been moving this way for decades, the trend didnt start with Obama - of jobs disappearing. the "free market" is not magically creating new jobs here to replace the ones lost. I think what we'll need is something like the New Deal work programs, with the government paying people to do domestic chores like plant trees, dig ditches, rehab houses, etc.

at least the money will be spent here, and circulated back into the economy to stimulate spending. and hell, maybe it will get some kids to move out of their parents' houses??? the $7.50/hour wages at Walmart that Spartanhack thinks are wonderful just haven't been cutting it...

you passed econ 101.

still need to do something about the "F" you got in econ 102.