Why stock market go down?

[nsonnett14]

Maybe the market response is based on figures like the projected $20B loss for airlines as of 2/15, revised to $113B as of Thursday. Maybe the market response is based on massive supply chain disruption and disinformation coming from the US government.

Or perhaps the stock market has been artificially held up recently and massively over extended and that someone had vested interest in keeping it that way until November (not giving a fuck what happened next). Maybe this Black Swan (look it up or read the book if you can read, mud) is what was needed to pull back the curtain on the scam. Ballooning deficit under ?fiscally responsible GOP?...? Impossible!!! That can only happen when a ?tax and spend nigger? is in the White House, right mud?

But who cares?! You don?t have any skin in the game ...any money invested. You?re just here to inject internet-based rumors into the mix ....


So tigermud, please stay in your lane as they say. Let the adults handle the conversations and we will leave the stupid rhetorical conspiracies to you.

And by the by asshat, the Dems didn?t ?try? to impeach Trump, his ass was impeached.

And yet he is STILL YOUR PRESIDENT . TDS is strong with this one boys !!

 

[tigermud]

We'll continue to bow to the Saudis, don't worry.

After the dust settles there is real opportunity for trump to bring some production back from China, hope he doesn't blow it. Can we at least produce our own meds?

 

[Spartanmack]

Bring production back

https://youtu.be/IqDrZYNafAg

scrap the corporate tax and see how quickly it comes back. I agree with Carlson when it comes to high value and/or items critical to our national security but we definitely should be importing some of the things we buy and consume. There's absolutely no reason to overpay for things like clothing, toys, a lot of electronics, etc and we should allow for competition from overseas in a lot of things but with better trade deals.

 

[Michchamp]

scrap the corporate tax and see how quickly it comes back.

but those corporations moved production overseas when taxes were lower.


corporate tax rates were a lot higher than they are now from 1940-1986. and they've been cutting corporate tax rates for years, and yet the jobs keep going overseas and the trend isn't close to reversing.



corporate off-shoring seems to have really became a problem in the 90's with signing all the free trade agreements.

 

[TheVictors]

Today will forever be known as ORANGE MONDAY ....

 

[Spartanmack]

but those corporations moved production overseas when taxes were lower.


corporate tax rates were a lot higher than they are now from 1940-1986. and they've been cutting corporate tax rates for years, and yet the jobs keep going overseas and the trend isn't close to reversing.



corporate off-shoring seems to have really became a problem in the 90's with signing all the free trade agreements.

it's the relative corp tax rate that matters, not the absolute level. Also, your chart needs a little context and your claims need correcting. First, the US hasn't been "cutting corporate tax rates for years" - your chart shows they were pretty stable from WWII to the mid 80s and then flat again for 30 years.

After 1945 our corp tax rate was a kind of irrelevant since after WWII, we were the only major industrial country whose productive capacity wasn't bombed to smithereens.

It wasn't until the 1970s that Japan could produce cheaper, more reliable and more fuel efficient cars and ship them to the US but they began stealing market share way before the 1990s. It wasn't until then that we really had any industrial threats from outside the US. Same thing with steel, which also became WAY less competitive, particularly for lower quality steel well before the 1990s.

Within the US, around that same time, jobs also started leaving the unionized rust belt to the cheaper and less regulated south and west which took a good 20 years or so.

The US has been among the highest corporate tax rates which combined with a high cost of labor makes us less competitive. but cutting corporate tax rates would make the US more competitive - getting rid of them altogether would not only bring back US companies manufacturing overseas but also generate a lot of foreign direct investment. We can still have a highly compensated labor force (maybe your dream of having workers control the means of production, so there would still be some income inequality, which isn't a real problem by the way) with low rates of unemployment and we wouldn't need a huge, wasteful government with a gigantic public safety net.

 

[Spartanmack]

Today will forever be known as ORANGE MONDAY ....

good luck getting that one to stick.

 

[TheVictors]

ps - In full disclosure, I did not coin the term, it is all over Twitter and was started by a trader who felt today should be distinguished from Black Monday and the true market decline appropriately attributed not to the virus, but to the lack of clarity and total uncertainty brought about by the orangutan in office.

 

[tigermud]

I prefer Black Swan Monday.

 

[Spartanmack]

And you’re buying that?

 

[tigermud]

ps - In full disclosure, I did not coin the term, it is all over Twitter and was started by a trader who felt today should be distinguished from Black Monday and the true market decline appropriately attributed not to the virus, but to the lack of clarity and total uncertainty brought about by the orangutan in office.

surely oil didn't have anything to do with today at all. But hey if it makes you all feel better to rage on with the TDS go ahead knock yourself out. It lost containment weeks ago while congress was still wrapping up impeachment. Everybody will be exposed sooner or later, most will recover some will not, the older you are the greater your risk, what more clarity do you need.


One shouldn't look to orange man for clarity

Coronavirus spread could last into next year, but impact could be blunted, CDC official says

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/09...il&utm_term=0_8cab1d7961-4f328b5caa-150802393

"A top federal health official said Monday that the evolving coronavirus outbreak could persist in the United States into next year, while stressing that public health interventions could still reduce the spread of the virus and cases of illness and death.

“As the trajectory of the outbreak continues, many people in the U.S. will at some point, either this year or next, get exposed to this virus,” Nancy Messonnier of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on a call with reporters. “And there’s a good chance many will become sick.”

Messonnier noted, however, that officials do not expect most people to suffer severe cases of Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus. She pointed to data from China, where the outbreak began and thousands of cases have been reviewed, that showed that some 80% of cases were mild and only a few percent were critical."

 

[Michchamp]

it's the relative corp tax rate that matters, not the absolute level. Also, your chart needs a little context...

So my chart, which shows that offshoring didn't start until corporate tax rates CAME DOWN needs context, but all your claims, including the one it directly refutes, don't... okay...

and your claims need correcting. First, the US hasn't been "cutting corporate tax rates for years" - your chart shows they were pretty stable from WWII to the mid 80s and then flat again for 30 years.. BLA BLA BLA, DURRR *wall of unsupported assertions and no evidence everyone should ignore*

say it however you want, but corporate taxes certainly haven't gone UP since offshoring began.

Here's a list of rates for the rest of the industrialized world.

Other nations on the list still manufacture a lot of things, like Germany and France... Mexico has relatively high corporate tax rates, and we moved tons of our production there (after NAFTA was signed, of course). The effective tax rates don't really explain it either (the effective corporate tax rates are lower down the in the same link).

If that's all that mattered, everything should be made in Italy. Or South Korea and Russia, I guess. But they're not... I wonder why?

Either way, we cut corporate tax rates significantly in 2018, pushing our nominal and effective tax rates below most of the other countries each list, but I haven't seen good paying manufacturing jobs coming back...

Fuck, why even have corporate taxes? Just make everyone pay all their taxes straight to corporations to subsidize their businesses, so all the production will move to the United States, right?

 

[Spartanmack]

So my chart, which shows that offshoring didn't start until corporate tax rates CAME DOWN needs context, but all your claims, including the one it directly refutes, don't... okay...

What are you talking about? Again it’s the relative rate that matters so if they cut taxes in the 80s but not enough to compete with other countries, it’s not going to stop importing good or exporting which we’ve been doing since way before the 90s. So no, your chart directly refutes nothing. And yes it needs context - it’s not just offshoring, it’s about general competitiveness. cars, steel, textiles, furniture and lots of other industries especially those with low skilled labor forces were impacted With jobs being lost to cheap labor regions well before offshoring took off in the 90s.

Say it however you want, but corporate taxes certainly haven't gone UP since offshoring began.

Here's a list of rates for the rest of the industrialized world.

Other nations on the list still manufacture a lot of things, like Germany and France... Mexico has relatively high corporate tax rates, and we moved tons of our production there (after NAFTA was signed, of course). The effective tax rates don't really explain it either (the effective corporate tax rates are lower down the in the same link).

If that's all that mattered, everything should be made in Italy. Or South Korea and Russia, I guess. But they're not... I wonder why?

Either way, we cut corporate tax rates significantly in 2018, pushing our nominal and effective tax rates below most of the other countries each list, but I haven't seen good paying manufacturing jobs coming back...

Fuck, why even have corporate taxes? Just make everyone pay all their taxes straight to corporations to subsidize their businesses, so all the production will move to the United States, right?

Again, it’s relative tax rates so the fact that didn’t go up (which I never said they did) is totally irrelevant. And it’s also not all that matters which I’ve clearly already stated. See, the economy is a multi-factor system.

As for the rest of your drivel, open your eyes. Manufacturing in America is coming back. Industrial real estate demand here in NJ is an extremely hot market and we are one of the least business friendly states in the country.

You’re right about one thing though - corporate income tax rates should be zero. But I don’t know why you would want taxpayers to pay their taxes directly to corporations. That makes even less sense than the other nonsense you said in this post.

 

[tomdalton22]

stock market taking another dive today. I don't even want to look at my 401k. Probably down to a 200.5k soon

 

[JScottWriter]

Has the Fed done everything it can to try and save it? Pumped in money and now lowered rates, is there anything left?

 

[tigermud]

Has the Fed done everything it can to try and save it? Pumped in money and now lowered rates, is there anything left?

The feds actions won't help, this is not a liquidy crises, it's crises of fear and over reaction panic. This will clam down in about two weeks and there is a huge opportunity buying the market here IMO


https://www.businessinsider.com/wuh...s-after-last-temporary-hospital-closes-2020-3

 

[tomdalton22]

The feds actions won't help, this is not a liquidy crises, it's crises of fear and over reaction panic. This will clam down in about two weeks and there is a huge opportunity buying the market here IMO


https://www.businessinsider.com/wuh...s-after-last-temporary-hospital-closes-2020-3

your two week estimate is probably "tremendously" optimistic. The US is in the beginning stages of this outbreak. The article you posted said that it began in that city in December. The first person in the US was reported on Jan 19. My guess is we have at least 4-6 weeks of increasing cases. In June there will be some great bargains...when the DOW is below 13000

 

[Michchamp]

Why stock market go down more today?

Why traders not know how to price risk?

 

[Michchamp]

Why trading halted?

 

[tigermud]

your two week estimate is probably "tremendously" optimistic. The us is in the beginning stages of this outbreak. The article you posted said that it began in that city in december. The first person in the us was reported on jan 19. My guess is we have at least 4-6 weeks of increasing cases. In june there will be some great bargains...when the dow is below 13000

6,000