Ferguson, MO

[Gulo Blue]

It's everywhere. Have you heard what Rev Al said about this? the Brown's lawyer? How many times have you heard/seen "Hands up! Don't shoot!" or "I am Mike Brown" or "Stop Killing Us". How about the Michelle Alexander piece? It starts with this "Many black families woke up this morning knowing that the lives of their children are worth less than the lives of white children in America. The deep distrust of law enforcement in their own communities that so many African Americans feel just got deeper last night..."

None of that is about the magnitude of the threat to minorities. It's all about the perception that when the police wrongfully kill people (not to say that's what happened here) they get away with it and that this disproportionally happens to African Americans. In this particular case, it doesn't help that the prosecutor is being described as unusually defending the police officer resulting in no trial. It's being described as unusual, which reinforces the narrative that things aren't fair, particularly in Ferguson.

 

[Monster]

Like the father crying about how his son's character was crucified somehow?

Dude, I get that he may have been a good kid most of the time, but don't act like he was somehow an innocent angelic tragedy. Robbery though petty shows his character wasn't ideal, but punching a cop who has not struck first then reaching for the cops gun... the kid crucified his own character with those actions.

Some people get away with far worse, certainly, but if you put yourself in a situation through your own choices and actions then you are gambling you won't have this result. Kid made very poor choices and paid a very steep price, but instead of using this as an example of how even seemingly small bad choices can have incredibly bad consequences, let's cry about how his character was crucified.

I've done some really stupid things, but throwing the first punch at a cop or otherwise instigating a confrontation with one would never enter my thought process. That speaks volumes for this kid's character.

This.

He just robbed a store a few minutes ago and his first response to a cop that tells him to get out of the street is to be hostile and curse at him? That's not just stupid. That's a thug mentality. I've had friends in my darker years with the same attitude. It's pretty sick and those type of people have only one path in life and it's by their own choosing.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Like the father crying about how his son's character was crucified somehow?

Dude, I get that he may have been a good kid most of the time, but don't act like he was somehow an innocent angelic tragedy. Robbery though petty shows his character wasn't ideal, but punching a cop who has not struck first then reaching for the cops gun... the kid crucified his own character with those actions.

Some people get away with far worse, certainly, but if you put yourself in a situation through your own choices and actions then you are gambling you won't have this result. Kid made very poor choices and paid a very steep price, but instead of using this as an example of how even seemingly small bad choices can have incredibly bad consequences, let's cry about how his character was crucified.

I've done some really stupid things, but throwing the first punch at a cop or otherwise instigating a confrontation with one would never enter my thought process. That speaks volumes for this kid's character.

The kid was a thug that day. I don't ever expect his parents to accept that.

 

[zyxt9]

Gulp, I think it is the slant these individuals are putting upon this case that is the issue. They wanted to make it into a racially motivated shooting and that is what the media has slanted into their reporting. That just stirs the pot, gets people worked up, incites rioting, which generates more press and greater revenue via advertisements, clicks on websites, etc.

This should never have been a national storyline. It should never have been covered as a racially motivated shooting. But the media is continuing their racially slanted reporting because that is what is selling.

 

[zyxt9]

And as for the police going in riot gear and such, none of that should have been needed either, but the media turned it into a racial shooting which instigated the rioting. If media and others don't turn this into a racial shooting, then there is no rioting and no need for riot gear.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It's not just about the shooting anymore, hasn't been for a long time.

What happened in the two minutes doesn't change that people set up a memorial where Brown was shot and a police dog reportedly urinated on it and a police vehicle ran it over. It doesn't change that as protests escalated from peaceful to angry to looting and riotous, at each step the Ferguson police acted with a heavy hand and responded with riot police, then SWAT, then finally more equipment than a lot of people realized police even had. No doubt people on each side blame the other for the escalations, but either way, when people that don't deserve to be tear gassed or shot with rubber bullets get swept up with people that do, they're going to be angry. The police did themselves no favors in the media. They were reported as treating the media roughly, detaining them, restricting their access, even arresting them. German reporters claimed they were arrested by an officer who would only identify himself as Donald Duck. They pointed their guns at people at completely inappropriate times. CNN filmed one of them saying "Bring it, you fucking animals, bring it."

 

[zyxt9]

Was there video of the police dog or cops running over the memorial or was that hearsay? seems to me cops would be fired for doing that and I would think that goes against the principles of any police. Not saying it isn't true, just that I need proof and those cops should be fired at a minimum. Now if a judge ordered it removed or if it was in a location that presented a public hazard, I'm sure that would not have been reported as such, the media would have used that to stoke the racial flames, so I'm just a little skeptical of those claims.

No I'm not saying the police are innocent of escalations, but seriously, why would there need to be a German news crew there??? The racial slants were not applied by the police to my knowledge but any officer who did use racial slurs deserves to be fired. As Monster stated previously, I don't hear racism in use of 'animal' label, but someone calling out someone for their behavior.

If you are 'innocent', you also stay the duck away from a riot. As for reporters, they were getting paid by entities purposefully stoking the racial issues... hardly 'innocent' in my book.

 

[Mitchrapp]

There was probably some disrespect shown. It happens. Bottom line, the guy was a thug that day. It was ALL caused because of him.

 

[hailhail]

It's not just about the shooting anymore, hasn't been for a long time.

What happened in the two minutes doesn't change that people set up a memorial where Brown was shot and a police dog reportedly urinated on it and a police vehicle ran it over. It doesn't change that as protests escalated from peaceful to angry to looting and riotous, at each step the Ferguson police acted with a heavy hand and responded with riot police, then SWAT, then finally more equipment than a lot of people realized police even had. No doubt people on each side blame the other for the escalations, but either way, when people that don't deserve to be tear gassed or shot with rubber bullets get swept up with people that do, they're going to be angry. The police did themselves no favors in the media. They were reported as treating the media roughly, detaining them, restricting their access, even arresting them. German reporters claimed they were arrested by an officer who would only identify himself as Donald Duck. They pointed their guns at people at completely inappropriate times. CNN filmed one of them saying "Bring it, you fucking animals, bring it."

Your last two posts are spot on. People are angry for understandable (if not good) reasons. That's taken a violent turn for some but even then peaceful protestors across the country (including here in Ann Arbor last night) outnumber the violent ones 1,000 to 1. The unclear, murky, and debatable facts of this case -- and even the clear facts -- don't change what people see as a broader problem (or problems, really).

 

[TheVictors]

Cops have always taken care of their own and there are countless accounts of corruption and violence over the decades and the black population has most certainly been victimized moreso than whites over time. The factors that play into the history are vast and many but there's truth. I can't say from experience because I have been fortunate enough to escape the type of systemic poverty and livelihood, but the death rate of young black males is far higher than other races and police are sometimes part of that or caught in the middle.

 

[Monster]

Sorry, but the memorial was in the middle of the street. Probably not a smart place to do so.

Also hearing the mom defending her husband's "burn this bitch down" chant is sickening. CNN rolling out people to help defend it. Sorry, but if I go downtown and start saying things to get people angry, then start that chant and within the hour there are fires everywhere, I'm getting arrested.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Was there video of the police dog or cops running over the memorial or was that hearsay? seems to me cops would be fired for doing that and I would think that goes against the principles of any police. Not saying it isn't true, just that I need proof and those cops should be fired at a minimum. Now if a judge ordered it removed or if it was in a location that presented a public hazard, I'm sure that would not have been reported as such, the media would have used that to stoke the racial flames, so I'm just a little skeptical of those claims.

No I'm not saying the police are innocent of escalations, but seriously, why would there need to be a German news crew there??? The racial slants were not applied by the police to my knowledge but any officer who did use racial slurs deserves to be fired. As Monster stated previously, I don't hear racism in use of 'animal' label, but someone calling out someone for their behavior.

If you are 'innocent', you also stay the duck away from a riot. As for reporters, they were getting paid by entities purposefully stoking the racial issues... hardly 'innocent' in my book.

I don't think there's any evidence of the dog thing, but here's a link: http://www.ibtimes.com/mike-brown-m...olice-day-ferguson-teens-death-report-1671898

As to the rest, I don't know why it matters why there were German reporters there or how you can hear that line about animals and let the guy off the hook because "animals" isn't racial. Look at the rest of the sentence and tell me you don't think that's going to piss anyone off. What if he had said "Bring it you fuckin' protesters. Bring it."? It doesn't matter. It's way out of line. That one wasn't hearsay. CNN aired the video.

 

[hailhail]

Sorry, but the memorial was in the middle of the street. Probably not a smart place to do so.

Also hearing the mom defending her husband's "burn this bitch down" chant is sickening. CNN rolling out people to help defend it. Sorry, but if I go downtown and start saying things to get people angry, then start that chant and within the hour there are fires everywhere, I'm getting arrested.

I haven't seen the video honestly, but you think he should be arrested?

Even from a pragmatic standpoint no good will come from arresting him and you'd only further inflame people.

 

[Gulo Blue]

There was probably some disrespect shown. It happens. Bottom line, the guy was a thug that day. It was ALL caused because of him.

Guy was a thug, but people didn't know it and didn't want to know it. That doesn't justify the response. It doesn't justify what's being reported as extremely rare prosecutor behavior.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Sorry, but the memorial was in the middle of the street. Probably not a smart place to do so.

Do you think that matters? What matters is how people saw it, not where you or I might think a good place for a memorial is. It was a small thing and possibly an understandable thing from my perspective. But think about it from theirs. You're hearing stories that someone in your town was unarmed and shot in the back while he was running away and then the police ran over the memorial. You've felt the police have had a bias against you your whole life and then you hear this story.

 

[Spartanmack]

None of that is about the magnitude of the threat to minorities. It's all about the perception that when the police wrongfully kill people (not to say that's what happened here) they get away with it and that this disproportionally happens to African Americans. In this particular case, it doesn't help that the prosecutor is being described as unusually defending the police officer resulting in no trial. It's being described as unusual, which reinforces the narrative that things aren't fair, particularly in Ferguson.

None of it? "Stop killing us" is not about the magnitude of the threat posed by police? And "Hands up! Don't shoot" is not about police killing innocent black people, even though that's clearly not what happened here? It's all about about the perception that when police kill someone they get away with it? And Reverend Al is just showing up for justice? I don't agree.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Guy was a thug, but people didn't know it and didn't want to know it. That doesn't justify the response. It doesn't justify what's being reported as extremely rare prosecutor behavior.

I'm not saying it does but Brown is dead for one reason, himself. Most people don't even think "maybe I'll rob this guy." Most people don't even think "maybe I'll reach into this police officers car and punch him."

What did he think was going to happen..

 

[Gulo Blue]

None of it? "Stop killing us" is not about the magnitude of the threat posed by police? And "Hands up! Don't shoot" is not about police killing innocent black people, even though that's clearly not what happened here? It's all about about the perception that when police kill someone they get away with it? And Reverend Al is just showing up for justice? I don't agree.

Unless you want to get technical about zero being a quantity, no. You've missed the mark here thinking that the relative numbers are the issue.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'm not saying it does but Brown is dead for one reason, himself. Most people don't even think "maybe I'll rob this guy." Most people don't even think "maybe I'll reach into this police officers car and punch him."

What did he think was going to happen..

And if that's all that happened with no history or other related events, there wouldn't be such a big reaction here.

 

[Mitchrapp]

And if that's all that happened with no history or other related events, there wouldn't be such a big reaction here.

Sure there would be. Guy with no gun, black, and white cop kills him.

But as far as history it's not a stretch to know Blacks as a whole do more criminal acts. Maybe there should be a white protests against idiot blacks who punch cops.