Last night's 9th inning debacle

[biggunsbob]

biggunsbob[/color]]Here are Jose's 6 decisions. The first two came on April 12th and April 13th verses the Rangers. He came in a 4-4 game and a 2-2 game and the Tigers won both in the bottom of the ninth. But his last 4 decisions have been losses.

May 2nd ..3-3 verses the Yankees and JV gave up 2 runs.
May 29th.. 3-3 verses the Red Sox he gave up 1 run.
July 1st.... 1-1 verses the Giants he gave up 3 runs.
August 17.. 4-4 verses the twins he gave up 2 runs.

Look i know there are other games when he helped get the Tigers to extra innings and such but the pattern as of late is not very good for Jose in non save situations.. I am not sure what the answer is but we all had the right to be worried when Jim brought him in last night to start the 9th..

Why not just look at his numbers in non save situations?

3 games in July, two bad games
5 games in June, zero runs allowed

May had a lot of bad games, 4 bad ones, 2 not very good, 1 fine

6 games in April, zero runs

You guys are talking out your ass. What you get from this is that Valverde wasn't that great in May.

Not some nonsense about non-save situations.

But the facts are in his SIX DECISIONS in which he came in in a tie game he won his first two and now has lost 4 in a row.. He needs to better in theses situations down the stretch... Stats are stats. He is not good in Non-save situations for some reason and JB had thrown only 4 pitches in the 8th and Coke only pitched to one batter the day before.. So JV was not the only option for the 9th..

 

[bdtay71]

We ostracize players when they underperform, they are professionals they should be able to perform thats what theyre paid for



Just because a guy collects a paycheck doesn't somehow make him a better player, nor does it mean that every decision that a manager makes is gonna work out. People are acting like it's out of the box to put your closer on the mound in the ninth inning of a tie game at home.

 

[mhughes0021]

BOOM Jimrice.....facts are facts!

Are you kidding? You talk out your ass and someone else looks something up, then you spike the football?

At no point did I say he never got hit in non-save situations, I even pointed out the games in an earlier post.

Someone shows proof that his ERA is terrible during non save situations and you still say im talking out of my ass lol. Thats just ignorant....

 

[staegrac]

We ostracize players when they underperform, they are professionals they should be able to perform thats what theyre paid for



Just because a guy collects a paycheck doesn't somehow make him a better player, nor does it mean that every decision that a manager makes is gonna work out. People are acting like it's out of the box to put your closer on the mound in the ninth inning of a tie game at home.

That's not my argument...My agrument is that they are paid for performance and usually the paid grade is an indication of how good a player is or has been...lets give smokey another year so he can screw us out of a divisional title? Why dont they wait until he wins the division to extend his contract...Smokey likes to throw away to many games, I know it is a long season but I say why not try and win 100% of the games by giving his 100% as a manager and not keep giving the so-so lineups cards 2-3 times a week...and why does he insist on resting players the way he does, that is maddening

I am tired of smokes playing the stat-game with the lineup and then decides to throw it out the window in other situations...Yes Valverde is money everytime we have the lead and is not so much when we do not have the lead...so Pauley, Beniot, and Coke couldnt have pitched?

 

[tomdalton22]

This is why the save stat is the most over rated stat in baseball. I want a reliever / closer that is money in ALL situations.

 

[deathroh]

biggunsbob[/color]]

Why not just look at his numbers in non save situations?

3 games in July, two bad games
5 games in June, zero runs allowed

May had a lot of bad games, 4 bad ones, 2 not very good, 1 fine

6 games in April, zero runs

You guys are talking out your ass. What you get from this is that Valverde wasn't that great in May.

Not some nonsense about non-save situations.

But the facts are in his SIX DECISIONS in which he came in in a tie game he won his first two and now has lost 4 in a row.. He needs to better in theses situations down the stretch... Stats are stats. He is not good in Non-save situations for some reason and JB had thrown only 4 pitches in the 8th and Coke only pitched to one batter the day before.. So JV was not the only option for the 9th..

From the same BYB article (that was in favor of the move, btw)...

"He (Coke) also has a 4.50 ERA in non-save situations and an .849 OPS against in 11 games pitched with tie games."

 

[beez]

biggunsbob[/color]]

Why not just look at his numbers in non save situations?

3 games in July, two bad games
5 games in June, zero runs allowed

May had a lot of bad games, 4 bad ones, 2 not very good, 1 fine

6 games in April, zero runs

You guys are talking out your ass. What you get from this is that Valverde wasn't that great in May.

Not some nonsense about non-save situations.

But the facts are in his SIX DECISIONS in which he came in in a tie game he won his first two and now has lost 4 in a row.. He needs to better in theses situations down the stretch... Stats are stats. He is not good in Non-save situations for some reason and JB had thrown only 4 pitches in the 8th and Coke only pitched to one batter the day before.. So JV was not the only option for the 9th..

4 in a row... man guess we should never put him in a tie game ever again. After you pitch 4 bad ones there's no recovery. I think we probably have to wait til next year since it's obvious he wont ever do it this year. If they make the World series and need a man to come in the 9th of a tied game I'm going with Coke, he's way more clutch than JV.

 

[biggunsbob]

The Only reason I am mention Coke and Benoit is in this particular game JB had only pitched to one batter in the 8th and only threw 4 pitches. Coke pitched in the previous game and only faced one batter. All I am saying is it is not like Jim did not have other options other then to uses Valverde. Time to move on and hope Leyland will put the Tigers in the best position to win tonight.

 

[beez]

biggunsbob[/color]]The Only reason I am mention Coke and Benoit is in this particular game JB had only pitched to one batter in the 8th and only threw 4 pitches. Coke pitched in the previous game and only faced one batter. All I am saying is it is not like Jim did not have other options other then to uses Valverde. Time to move on and hope Leyland will put the Tigers in the best position to win tonight.

i'm just saying Jim Leyland is being shot in the face verbally for putting his best reliever in a tied ball game. It's stupid and if any other manager in baseball did it (Besides Ozzie Guillen) no one here would have found it to be a terrible move.

 

[biggunsbob]

biggunsbob[/color]]The Only reason I am mention Coke and Benoit is in this particular game JB had only pitched to one batter in the 8th and only threw 4 pitches. Coke pitched in the previous game and only faced one batter. All I am saying is it is not like Jim did not have other options other then to uses Valverde. Time to move on and hope Leyland will put the Tigers in the best position to win tonight.

i'm just saying Jim Leyland is being shot in the face verbally for putting his best reliever in a tied ball game. It's stupid and if any other manager in baseball did it (Besides Ozzie Guillen) no one here would have found it to be a terrible move.

Well valverde has had some trouble in theses games Tie games... He has lost his last dour decisions.. We need theses games.. Anyway i hope we win tonight..

 

[beez]

If Verlander loses 5 straight day games do we stop pitching him in the day time? Or what if he loses on Sunday or blows up 4 straight times in 7th inning do we quit sending him out there in favor of someone else in those situations? Absolutely not. Thats my point, you know the guy is talented, you know he can get it done..just because he has messed up a few times doesnt give me any less faith in him and doesnt give JL any less sense for using him in a tight spot. Like you said, lets just move on because with all the opinions and facts presented in this thread, we are still a world apart on agreeing.