Serious Question

[bdtay1971]

Hmmm, Its tough to judge the talent of a team that relies on so may Freshman because young players are so inconsistent. It takes some guys longer to develop, especially if they are being asked to take on a new role in College. Oladipo is a great example. As a Freshman he was known for being a good defender and athlete. Now, as a Junior he has developed into a complete player. He always had the talent, it just took him a while to learn to utilize it. Evan Turner was like this as well.

I wouldn't argue with that at all. Also, I think we have one of the best transition offenses in the NCAA but not one of the best half court offenses by any stretch f the imagination. When we play good D it usually leads to more transition offense chances. Against Wisky, even when we were playing good D, we didn't get many chances torun uz they were consistently dropping 3 back as soon as the shot went up. That was also why we rebounded well today. I guess the only part of my reply directed to you was the first sentence and the rest was to an earlier post.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Sorry but no. Michigan is not EASILY more talented than Ohio State or MSU. I will grant that IU has a big edge in talent over the rest of the league but the next tier is pretty close IMO.

Edit: The next tier being UM, MSU, and OSU.

Really? Adriean Payne 20th rated coming in, 5 star. Likely top 15 pick if he comes back. Gary Harris, Top 11 player, McD's AA, Mr. Basketball in Indiana in a stacked year, and projected top 10 pick even though he's coming back. Keith Appling, 27th rated player, Mr. Basketball, and McD's AA. Branden Dawson, top 20 player and McD's AA. Derrick Nix, top 70 player and Mr. Basketball. Denzel Valentine, top 80 player and Mr. Basketball runner-up. MAtt Costello, top 85 player and Mr. Basketball.

Michigan has 1 top 20 recruit(Robinson who finished 4th in Indiana's Mr. Basketball) and zero McD's AAs. Heck, Trey Burke was a top 85 player who way overachieved and will be a top 15 pick, did win Mr. Basketball in Ohio though. McGary was a 4 star and 35th rated player. THJ a top 100 player along with Srauskus as well, but that's it for big time guys.

The most talented player on either team is Adriean Payne. Kid could be a very good pro if he continues to develop, he's 6-10, can jump out of the gym, has a 7-4" wing span, and can shoot.

You drank the koolaid. Michigan has more talent than they've had in a while, but you have to realize that MSU, IU, and OSU have been filling their rosters with top 30 players every year for a long time. Beilein does have a good eye for underrated players though.

 

[josh200612]

What i think about him is ya the players coach not him it's been like that for two years.

 

[allshouldbleedblue]

Really? Adriean Payne 20th rated coming in, 5 star. Likely top 15 pick if he comes back. Gary Harris, Top 11 player, McD's AA, Mr. Basketball in Indiana in a stacked year, and projected top 10 pick even though he's coming back. Keith Appling, 27th rated player, Mr. Basketball, and McD's AA. Branden Dawson, top 20 player and McD's AA. Derrick Nix, top 70 player and Mr. Basketball. Denzel Valentine, top 80 player and Mr. Basketball runner-up. MAtt Costello, top 85 player and Mr. Basketball.

Michigan has 1 top 20 recruit(Robinson who finished 4th in Indiana's Mr. Basketball) and zero McD's AAs. Heck, Trey Burke was a top 85 player who way overachieved and will be a top 15 pick, did win Mr. Basketball in Ohio though. McGary was a 4 star and 35th rated player. THJ a top 100 player along with Srauskus as well, but that's it for big time guys.

The most talented player on either team is Adriean Payne. Kid could be a very good pro if he continues to develop, he's 6-10, can jump out of the gym, has a 7-4" wing span, and can shoot.

You drank the koolaid. Michigan has more talent than they've had in a while, but you have to realize that MSU, IU, and OSU have been filling their rosters with top 30 players every year for a long time. Beilein does have a good eye for underrated players though.

you do understand that whatever they did in high school has nothing to do with how talented they are in college? the best players in high school can do nothing in their college careers and the average high school players can become amazing college players. listing what all of your players did in high school neither proves nor disproves anything about their talent level in COLLEGE.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Appling has no talent!!!

 

[tsume99]

I saw Michigan win a National Title when I was seven years old. Saw them make two Final Fours, that got wiped out, when I was 10 and 11 years old. I hope and wish for the program to get back to that level all the time, but at this point I'd be happily surprised if they won another national championship before I'm dead.

At least you got to see them get that far, even if two of them no longer "count."

This is what has been so frustrating for me as a newcomer to UM football and basketball (didn't become emotionally invested until grad school). Every good team I've seen has lacked that something that keeps them from being truly great.

As with horse racing's Triple Crown, I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever see a Michigan team win a national title in either sport before I die.

 

[tigersofjustice]

Really? Adriean Payne 20th rated coming in, 5 star. Likely top 15 pick if he comes back. Gary Harris, Top 11 player, McD's AA, Mr. Basketball in Indiana in a stacked year, and projected top 10 pick even though he's coming back. Keith Appling, 27th rated player, Mr. Basketball, and McD's AA. Branden Dawson, top 20 player and McD's AA. Derrick Nix, top 70 player and Mr. Basketball. Denzel Valentine, top 80 player and Mr. Basketball runner-up. MAtt Costello, top 85 player and Mr. Basketball.

Michigan has 1 top 20 recruit(Robinson who finished 4th in Indiana's Mr. Basketball) and zero McD's AAs. Heck, Trey Burke was a top 85 player who way overachieved and will be a top 15 pick, did win Mr. Basketball in Ohio though. McGary was a 4 star and 35th rated player. THJ a top 100 player along with Srauskus as well, but that's it for big time guys.

The most talented player on either team is Adriean Payne. Kid could be a very good pro if he continues to develop, he's 6-10, can jump out of the gym, has a 7-4" wing span, and can shoot.

You drank the koolaid. Michigan has more talent than they've had in a while, but you have to realize that MSU, IU, and OSU have been filling their rosters with top 30 players every year for a long time. Beilein does have a good eye for underrated players though.

You just make yourself look dumb when you start saying "Mr. Basketball" and McDonald's all american about kids who have actual experience in college ball. If they don't perform like stars, guess what, they are not stars, and it really doesn't matter what they did against bad high school players a few years ago at that point. I don't care if MSU's entire roster is 5 star recruit all american's because frankly only Harris has that label at this point after being exposed to good competition. I'll give you Payne too because he is very talented for a big man. Nobody else carries that weight anymore and it really doesn't matter what they did in high school.

And your seriously putting Trey Burke down because of his college recruiting ranking? That's beyond stupid because he's now a lottery pick (in all likelihood) and is quite clearly better than many people who were ranked higher two years ago against far inferior competition.

 

[Green and White 95]

Does anyone think JB can lead this team to a better program? As of late, it does not look like he and his staff have any idea how to adjust and get the most out of top talent. i know he can take underrated guys and make them play hard, but i just dont think he has shown anything when it comes to top tier talent. Is this the best we can hope for? none of the players, besides mcgary, look like they are playing with passion. burke ballhogs, other guys stand around. noone is making their own shots. where is the improvement?

For the most part, JB is a great coach. Yeah, I didn't agree with his lineup change tonight during your run, but overall he has done a good job. No way you even think about a change. All you have to remember is where your program was 5 to 6 years ago. JB has brought in great talent and continues with next years class. Wait until the tourney is over before you make any more accusations.

 

[Green and White 95]

As a State fan, I would love to see you guys replace Beilein. He's built that program from nothing and now he's getting better players than ever. A couple good recruits coming in next year although with Burke leaving next year could be a little step back. Michigan is going to be an upper tier B1G team under Beilein, that's a lot better than where you came from. Replace him and you start over.

Now, is he a great coach? Not great, but good, he really doesn't coach defense and toughness as well as some other guys in the B1G, but that can change. Michigan is a finesse team, that lead them to 20-1 when the games were more finesse, when things got tough they wilted, you learn to play tough all year round, not in February and March. That being said, Michigan is fully capable of making a run in the right bracket, I just don't think they have a shot to win it all anymore.

Exactly, although I still think UM can win it all, just not as sold as I was earlier in the year. They have one of the best backcourts in the nation, a recipe for tourney success.

 

[Green and White 95]

Five star recruits and McDonald's all american's is great...until you see them play and figure out that they either are or are not that good. There is nobody on MSU that is even going to sniff the NBA aside from Gary Harris. Even worse for OSU, Thomas may get drafted but he is a tweener without a position and doesn't shoot all that well. Craft is a defensive specialist at best that probably won't make a roster, that's really all OSU has. IU has some top notch players like Oladipo and Zeller. Watford, Hulls, Sheehey, and Ferrell are probably all better than the remainder of MSU and OSU's rosters. Michigan has in all likelihood the player of the year. A 6 5 shooting guard who shoots just under 40% from three, a 6'11" big man who is built like a house and finishes well inside, another guy who shoots closer to 45% from three, and GR3 who is probably more athletic than anyone in the conference.

There is a reason UM has one of the best offenses in the country. Frankly I think it is disingenuous of you to suggest this team doesn't have more talent than everyone in the conference. Maybe you are just misleading yourself and actually believe that, but frankly I think you are just being disingenuous. Aside from IU, this team EASILY has more pure talent than any other team. The difference between them and everybody else has been fundamental things like boxing out, running through the offense for a high percentage shot, and other basic coachable things that you would expect Beilein to have done better with by now.

Well, you don't watch MSU much then. Payne will be a pro, maybe even next year and Dawson has a good chance once his MSU career is over.

 

[silverbullet97]

A number of other people have already brought up the point I was going to make. Being a High School All American is not worth any points in college.

Edit: I don't think it is any mistake that MSU, UM, and OSU all split with each other this year.

 

[silverbullet97]

Well, you don't watch MSU much then. Payne will be a pro, maybe even next year and Dawson has a good chance once his MSU career is over.

Along the same lines, preseason a lot of people LaQuinton Ross Ohio State's best NBA prospect (Has a lot of developing first). Personally, I think Shannon Scott is going to blossom into an NBA point guard. He has been one of the players that led the Buckeye's resurgence at the end of the season.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Along the same lines, preseason a lot of people LaQuinton Ross Ohio State's best NBA prospect (Has a lot of developing first). Personally, I think Shannon Scott is going to blossom into an NBA point guard. He has been one of the players that led the Buckeye's resurgence at the end of the season.

Scott has been good, but what about Sam Thompson? Playing great and probably could win tghe NBA slam dunk contest right now. Haven't seen a player in the B1G with hops like him since...I don't know, I'm still thinking. Shannon Brown maybe?

 

[johnny2x2x]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzumJoqRXfo

The above is insane for Brown, but I would bet Thompson gets right there too. How about the 360 by Oladipo today too.

 

[hungry]

As a State fan, I would love to see you guys replace Beilein. He's built that program from nothing and now he's getting better players than ever. A couple good recruits coming in next year although with Burke leaving next year could be a little step back. Michigan is going to be an upper tier B1G team under Beilein, that's a lot better than where you came from. Replace him and you start over.

Now, is he a great coach? Not great, but good, he really doesn't coach defense and toughness as well as some other guys in the B1G, but that can change. Michigan is a finesse team, that lead them to 20-1 when the games were more finesse, when things got tough they wilted, you learn to play tough all year round, not in February and March. That being said, Michigan is fully capable of making a run in the right bracket, I just don't think they have a shot to win it all anymore.

I agree with Jonny

Michigan is 26-7/12-6. How quickly do people forget 2001-2009?

 

[hungry]

Michigan shouldn't have lost to that Wisconsin team once let alone twice. That is disgraceful.

They have not made a single adjustment. They have had the same issues all year and they seem to get worse. They have the best offense in the country and are still prone to all these coachable mistakes that they make in every game. Frankly, this team has a lot more talent than their record which is what is so upsetting about them.

i think Michigan has more talent at every position than UW, but UW's players are all juniors and seniors while MIchigan's players are not. Some people forget how much a body develops from age 19 to 23, let alone basketball games.

 

[hungry]

Five star recruits and McDonald's all american's is great...until you see them play and figure out that they either are or are not that good. There is nobody on MSU that is even going to sniff the NBA aside from Gary Harris. Even worse for OSU, Thomas may get drafted but he is a tweener without a position and doesn't shoot all that well. Craft is a defensive specialist at best that probably won't make a roster, that's really all OSU has. IU has some top notch players like Oladipo and Zeller. Watford, Hulls, Sheehey, and Ferrell are probably all better than the remainder of MSU and OSU's rosters. Michigan has in all likelihood the player of the year. A 6 5 shooting guard who shoots just under 40% from three, a 6'11" big man who is built like a house and finishes well inside, another guy who shoots closer to 45% from three, and GR3 who is probably more athletic than anyone in the conference.

There is a reason UM has one of the best offenses in the country. Frankly I think it is disingenuous of you to suggest this team doesn't have more talent than everyone in the conference. Maybe you are just misleading yourself and actually believe that, but frankly I think you are just being disingenuous. Aside from IU, this team EASILY has more pure talent than any other team. The difference between them and everybody else has been fundamental things like boxing out, running through the offense for a high percentage shot, and other basic coachable things that you would expect Beilein to have done better with by now.

This post is crazy!!

I think Payne will be in the nba

Who is Michigan's big man that finishes well around the basket? G3 is athletic, but doesn't have good ball handling and is pisspoor on d.

 

[hungry]

You just make yourself look dumb when you start saying "Mr. Basketball" and McDonald's all american about kids who have actual experience in college ball. If they don't perform like stars, guess what, they are not stars, and it really doesn't matter what they did against bad high school players a few years ago at that point. I don't care if MSU's entire roster is 5 star recruit all american's because frankly only Harris has that label at this point after being exposed to good competition. I'll give you Payne too because he is very talented for a big man. Nobody else carries that weight anymore and it really doesn't matter what they did in high school.

And your seriously putting Trey Burke down because of his college recruiting ranking? That's beyond stupid because he's now a lottery pick (in all likelihood) and is quite clearly better than many people who were ranked higher two years ago against far inferior competition.

Or you could say that is how talented they were coming out of high school and then the coaches at each school took over and started to develop that raw talent. If you look at it like this, you wonder who the better coach really is.

JB has taken lower ranked players than MSU has and developed them into a team that just went 27-6/12-6 in the best conference in basketball and just missed sharing the big 10 title by 1 point.

 

[bdtay1971]

i think Michigan has more talent at every position than UW, but UW's players are all juniors and seniors while MIchigan's players are not. Some people forget how much a body develops from age 19 to 23, let alone basketball games.

Good post. I remember when we lost Harris and Sims and it was all doom and gloom. The difference that one year made for Morris was huge. Same with Novak and Douglas to a lesser degree. Not saying everyone is going to blossom like Morris did but I would not bet against it either.

 

[tigersofjustice]

Good post. I remember when we lost Harris and Sims and it was all doom and gloom. The difference that one year made for Morris was huge. Same with Novak and Douglas to a lesser degree. Not saying everyone is going to blossom like Morris did but I would not bet against it either.

I would agree that I am more encouraged than discouraged for the future. Even losing Trey Burke and maybe Hardaway I would expect this group to be a top 5 team in the big 10 next year.