Worst Anti-Science BS of 2017

[tigermud]

You could play this song before using your mouse or thumb to view a DJ thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijhL9Y7skQs

I've been thinking about starting a DJ thread under diggers junk where we can just post whatever music we feel like whenever, would anyone like that

Not tonight though xfiles starts in 30 mins

 

[Spartanmack]

Let me know if you think of an example. I'm honestly not sure from what I've read if it's factually wrong or just manipulative. Either way, I blame Al Gore to some degree for politicizing something that shouldn't be.

how about the claim that Hurricane Katrina was a result of global warming and that the earth would experience more and bigger weather events.

 

[Gulo Blue]

how about the claim that Hurricane Katrina was a result of global warming and that the earth would experience more and bigger weather events.

I googled for quotes and found these

"The voluminous evidence now strongly suggests that unless we act boldly and quickly to deal with the underlying causes of global warming, our world will undergo a string of terrible catastrophes, including more and stronger storms like Hurricane Katrina, in both the Atlantic and the Pacific."

"For example, when we were first warned that the levees were about to break in New Orleans because of Hurricane Katrina, those warnings were ignored. Later, a bipartisan group of members of Congress chaired by Representative Tom Davis (R-VA.), chairman of the House Government Reform Committee, said in an official report, "The White House failed to act on the massive amounts of information at its disposal," and that a "blinding lack of situational awareness and disjointed decision-making needlessly compounded and prolonged Katrina's horror.""

So what part are you pointing at? I don't see that he actually said "Katrina is a result of global warming" and the idea that warmer oceans leads to more frequent and more intense hurricanes is pretty straightforward.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Looks like an upward trend to me.

 

[turok]

https://www.livescience.com/41231-haiyan-more-intense-than-katrina.html

 

[Gulo Blue]

There are 2 main hurdles that seem to allow people enough wiggle room to continue to deny this is an issue. 1) it's a complex and chaotic system and 2) the long time scales. Because it is complex and chaotic, some people think nothing can be said to cause anything because there are always other factors due to the complexity and what looks like counter examples due to the chaotic nature. The time scale problem means that what looks like a completely unnatural rate of change over long times scales doesn't appear to be a big deal over the course of decades. THIS LINK is a pretty good illustration of the time scale.

 

[Spartanmack]

I googled for quotes and found these

"The voluminous evidence now strongly suggests that unless we act boldly and quickly to deal with the underlying causes of global warming, our world will undergo a string of terrible catastrophes, including more and stronger storms like Hurricane Katrina, in both the Atlantic and the Pacific."

"For example, when we were first warned that the levees were about to break in New Orleans because of Hurricane Katrina, those warnings were ignored. Later, a bipartisan group of members of Congress chaired by Representative Tom Davis (R-VA.), chairman of the House Government Reform Committee, said in an official report, "The White House failed to act on the massive amounts of information at its disposal," and that a "blinding lack of situational awareness and disjointed decision-making needlessly compounded and prolonged Katrina's horror.""

So what part are you pointing at? I don't see that he actually said "Katrina is a result of global warming" and the idea that warmer oceans leads to more frequent and more intense hurricanes is pretty straightforward.

the movie opens with footage of Katrina slamming into New Orleans and it talks about how if we don't act in 10 years, we were going to experience more and greater weather extremes. It's not difficult to read between the lines here - in fact, you have to have a pretty restrictive standard to let Gore off on a technicality here. The truth is we're not experiencing more and bigger storms. Also, according to Randy Cerveny (rapporteur on climate extremes within the United Nations-affiliated World Meteorological Organization). full article linked below.

There is some theoretical research suggesting that with global warming, hurricanes may increase in size and intensity, but there is still much debate about that in the scientific community. In general, hurricanes have not changed much in the last few decades in terms of size or intensity. The last hurricane of Category 5 strength to hit the United States was Andrew (1992). The difference is the coverage of tropical cyclones (via 24/7 news and social media) that brings tropical storm activity much more into public attention.

Gore also made claims about Lake Chad and the snow on Kilamanjaro being the results of global warming - there's no evidence, let alone proof of either of these. He blamed the drowning of polar bears on the loss of ice - it was found that the polar bears he referred to (4 of them) drowned because they were caught at sea in a huge storm.


https://asunow.asu.edu/20170921-dis...r-records-asu-climatologist-and-un-rapporteur

 

[Gulo Blue]

https://www.livescience.com/41231-haiyan-more-intense-than-katrina.html

Incredible. Gusts up to 235 mph. Mach 0.3.

 

[Gulo Blue]

the movie opens with footage of Katrina slamming into New Orleans and it talks about how if we don't act in 10 years, we were going to experience more and greater weather extremes. It's not difficult to read between the lines here - in fact, you have to have a pretty restrictive standard to let Gore off on a technicality here. The truth is we're not experiencing more and bigger storms. Also, according to Randy Cerveny (rapporteur on climate extremes within the United Nations-affiliated World Meteorological Organization). full article linked below.




Gore also made claims about Lake Chad and the snow on Kilamanjaro being the results of global warming - there's no evidence, let alone proof of either of these. He blamed the drowning of polar bears on the loss of ice - it was found that the polar bears he referred to (4 of them) drowned because they were caught at sea in a huge storm.


https://asunow.asu.edu/20170921-dis...r-records-asu-climatologist-and-un-rapporteur

See post 86 to see why your points aren't valid and post 84 to refute the idea that activity isn't increasing.

 

[Gulo Blue]

...and crap, could you pick worse timing to talk about polar bears? I know it's an emotional hook and anecdotal evidence isn't particularly valuable when talking about climate change, but there was just a story all over the internet about sea ice retreating making life tough for polar bears with video of a starving bear .

https://news.nationalgeographic.com...rving-arctic-sea-ice-melt-climate-change-spd/

 

[tinselwolverine]

...and crap, could you pick worse timing to talk about polar bears? I know it's an emotional hook and anecdotal evidence isn't particularly valuable when talking about climate change, but there was just a story all over the internet about sea ice retreating making life tough for polar bears with video of a starving bear .

https://news.nationalgeographic.com...rving-arctic-sea-ice-melt-climate-change-spd/

Conservatives revel in the suffering of the vulnerable, like the poor and the elderly and children and animals.

That's confirmed and documented science.

 

[turok]

Polar bears also have been mating with grizzlies as they have gone to ground in search of food, birthing grolar and pizzly bear hybrids.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Polar bears also have been mating with grizzlies as they have gone to ground in search of food, birthing grolar and pizzly bear hybrids.

Once you go black...

 

[Spartanmack]

See post 86 to see why your points aren't valid and post 84 to refute the idea that activity isn't increasing.

I saw them both. Post 86 is an opinion, not a definitive invalidation and in case I need to state the obvious, I don't agree with your opinion.

As for post 84, whether that chart is accurate or not is debatable and debated. It could be that more and better data is available now and tracking has improved over the last 130 years. In fact, this article says it's likely that the trend is due to better observations, rather than a trend due to global warming.

https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/historical-atlantic-hurricane-and-tropical-storm-records/

 

[Spartanmack]

Polar bears also have been mating with grizzlies as they have gone to ground in search of food, birthing grolar and pizzly bear hybrids.

They are in search of food, but not because of global warming or ice melt, etc. Polar bear populations are up more than 10% since 2001. Some scientists attribute this to larger, not smaller food supplies - apparently, the social backlash has led to fewer baby seals being clubbed for fur coats, etc. which has led to the increased number of bears. They argue it's more likely that competition from their greatly increased numbers and not ice (which isn't retreating) that has led some to head south where they're coming in contact and breeding with other species of bears.

 

[tinselwolverine]

They are in search of food, but not because of global warming or ice melt, etc. Polar bear populations are up more than 10% since 2001. Some scientists attribute this to larger, not smaller food supplies - apparently, the social backlash has led to fewer baby seals being clubbed for fur coats, etc. which has led to the increased number of bears. They argue it's more likely that competition from their greatly increased numbers and not ice (which isn't retreating) that has led some to head south where they're coming in contact and breeding with other species of bears.

Or maybe word is just getting back to the polar bear pack about just how good that grizzly tail is...

 

[Gulo Blue]

I saw them both. Post 86 is an opinion, not a definitive invalidation and in case I need to state the obvious, I don't agree with your opinion.

As for post 84, whether that chart is accurate or not is debatable and debated. It could be that more and better data is available now and tracking has improved over the last 130 years. In fact, this article says it's likely that the trend is due to better observations, rather than a trend due to global warming.

https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/historical-atlantic-hurricane-and-tropical-storm-records/

That's a good argument. That's why I wouldn't base my beliefs on the threat of climate change on hurricane data. I personally think that record hurricane Turok posted is kind of a soft upper limit on hurricane speeds (this is just my gut talking, but as you approach compressibility, I think it will take more and more power to increase the speed of a hurricane less and less - like double the power yields a 10% increase in windspeed). However, that's not the issue here. The issue that led to a discussion of hurricanes is whether or not Al Gore is pitching nonsense and lies, a point you have not proven. Even if you think the scale of the correction these guys added is correct, Gore could not have know about research done in 2008 when he made his movie in 2006.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Or maybe word is just getting back to the polar bear pack about just how good that grizzly tail is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CnFo7qinng

 

[Spartanmack]

Or maybe word is just getting back to the polar bear pack about just how good that grizzly tail is...

if they're leaving all those icebergs full of delicious baby seals for this, it has to be good, right?

 

[Spartanmack]

That's a good argument. That's why I wouldn't base my beliefs on the threat of climate change on hurricane data. I personally think that record hurricane Turok posted is kind of a soft upper limit on hurricane speeds (this is just my gut talking, but as you approach compressibility, I think it will take more and more power to increase the speed of a hurricane less and less - like double the power yields a 10% increase in windspeed). However, that's not the issue here. The issue that led to a discussion of hurricanes is whether or not Al Gore is pitching nonsense and lies, a point you have not proven. Even if you think the scale of the correction these guys added is correct, Gore could not have know about research done in 2008 when he made his movie in 2006.

well, if making unsubstantiated claims that aren't true isn't lying because they can be neither proved or disproved then I guess Al Gore deserves his millions and his nobel prize. I stand corrected (#sarcasm).