Can you really use the word running? I'd go with laboring.

Pitchers and catchers report in two weeks.

We don't get much of a break between the mess that is the Lions and the mess that is the Tigers, do we?

tinselwolverine said:

Pitchers and catchers report in two weeks.

We don't get much of a break between the mess that is the Lions and the mess that is the Tigers, do we?

Click to expand...

There is no break. Between the Lions and Tigers you have the Pistons mess & Wings mess

tinselwolverine said:

Pitchers and catchers report in two weeks.

We don't get much of a break between the mess that is the Lions and the mess that is the Tigers, do we?

Click to expand...

That's where the sayings, "at least we get the Tigers soon" & "at least we get the Lions soon", comes from.

I wonder if it would be better to put V-Mart lower in the lineup. Maybe 5 or 6.

I get that he's a bad base runner, same as Miguel, but at least they get on base at a high average.

Which trumps a guy like Gose who may be a great base runner, but was not on base often enough for it to be a great bonus.

XBT% (Baseball-Reference Stat) Last 3 years

V. Martinez 11.0% (23% career)
B. McCann 15.0%
J. Saltalamacchia 23.3% (33% career)
N. Castellanos 27.0%
S. Moya 27.0%
C. McGehee 28.3% (31% career)

M. Cabrera 30.0% (34% career)
J.D. Martinez 33.7% (34% career)

2016 AL AVG = 40%

J. Iglesias 41.0% (43% career)
M. Aviles 42.3% (48% career)
D. Machado 43.0%
J. Upton 44.0% (49% career)
A. Romine 46.0% (45% career)
A. Gose 46.3% (53% career)
E. Aybar 51.3% (58% career)
C. Maybin 54.3% (59% career)
I. Kinsler 54.7% (55% career)
T. Collins 62.0%

There is only one player that improved the last 3 years, and that is Romine.

New Arrivals:

A. Avila 13.3% (24% career)
M. Mahtook 31.0%

26-year old James McCann is starting his career with a very low rate (15%). Avila started his first 3 years with 32%. Victor Martinez started with 29%. I don't particularly care that V-Mart is slow. As Thumb pointed out, at least he gets on base. The issue is the rest of the team and their inability to get on base, coupled with not being able to take the base when needed.

Fangraph's BsR stat (last 3 years)

Base Running (BsR) is FanGraphs’ all encompassing base running statistic that turns stolen bases, caught stealings, and other base running plays (taking extra bases, being thrown out on the bases, etc) into runs above and below average.

R. Davis 18.3
I. Kinsler 10.1
C. Granderson 7.7
J. Upton 7.1
H. Perez 6.8
Y. Cespedes 5.3
A. Romine 4.6
A. Jackson 4.5
D. Travis 3.6
O. Infante 3.4
C. Maybin 3.0
E. Aybar 2.4
T. Collins 2.1
A. Gose 1.7
A. Presley 1.5

J. Altuvue 1.4 (as information purposes)

J. Saltalamacchia 0.1
Del. Young -0.2
R. Raburn -0.9
M. Mahtook -1.3

M. Joyce -1.7

E. Suarez -1.8
M. Aviles -2.2
T. Hunter -3.9
J. Iglesias -4.0
Av. Garcia -5.5
J.D. Martinez -5.7
J. McCann -8.9
B. Pena -10.2
N. Castellanos -12.0
A. Avila -12.3
J. Peralta -12.3
P. Fielder -12.5
C. McGehee -15.7
M. Cabrera -17.5
V. Martinez -26.1

DET as a team is dead last in BsR the last 3 years by a significant amount (-55.1 to -33.6 for the next team). The Mean is -1.7. We have 6 of our potential starters below average. Victor is certainly dead last.

BsR by position last 3 years:

C = 28th

1B = 29th

2B = 6th

SS = 22nd

3B = 28th

LF = 7th

CF = 17th

RF = 29th

DH = 14th 0f 15

Jose Iglesias maybe above average at taking an extra base, but he makes enough baserunning mistakes to negate that stat. The same could be said for Jose Altuve, but there is enough in the rest of Altuve's game that would allow someone to overlook this.

Yeah, Jose - he's horrible on the bases.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/where-the-tigers-have-been-just-an-absolute-mess/

More on the topic.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/where-the-tigers-have-been-just-an-absolute-mess/

More on the topic....

Not sure why the double post. I leave the thread, come back, and none of the posts from today show.

Rebbiv said:

Not sure why the double post. I leave the thread, come back, and none of the posts from today show.

Click to expand...

Read up top on main forum.

tomdalton22 said:

I wonder if it would be better to put V-Mart lower in the lineup. Maybe 5 or 6.

Click to expand...

The problem with this, is Cabrera is a station to station runner as well batting 3rd, Moving V-mart apart from him sandwiches the batters between them and turns them into station to station. The real reason J.D. makes a good number 5 hitter, power that can homer the STS runners off the bases. And should he not homer well it's not like he is going to run over them. Upton just did not produce in the 2 spot last season. So he needs to bat behind JD to open his running game. And his average did not produce in the 6 spot most of the time. Putting our slow runner catchers behind V-mart is temping. But it puts too many powers hitters lower in the lineup. But Tigers could try it in spring training.

I'm been crying about the team being unbalanced, too slow, weighting too much at times. Mainly pitchers being a little robust. and money inflexible has now become a problem. And I did not rejoice in V-Mart resigning, age was going to work against him. Lets face it he is slow. BTW don't get me wrong I like V- mart. I just did/do not see good/great seasons next two. May this part of the post come back to bite me in the post season.

But he's not the only base runner problem the Tigers have, nor is base running the only problem the Tigers have!

lonesometiger said:

The problem with this, is Cabrera is a station to station runner as well batting 3rd, Moving V-mart apart from him sandwiches the batters between them and turns them into station to station. The real reason J.D. makes a good number 5 hitter, power that can homer the STS runners off the bases. And should he not homer well it's not like he is going to run over them. Upton just did not produce in the 2 spot last season. So he needs to bat behind JD to open his running game. And his average did not produce in the 6 spot most of the time. Putting our slow runner catchers behind V-mart is temping. But it puts too many powers hitters lower in the lineup. But Tigers could try it in spring training.

I'm been crying about the team being unbalanced, too slow, weighting too much at times. Mainly pitchers being a little robust. and money inflexible has now become a problem. And I did not rejoice in V-Mart resigning, age was going to work against him. Lets face it he is slow. BTW don't get me wrong I like V- mart. I just did/do not see good/great seasons next two. May this part of the post come back to bite me in the post season.

But he's not the only base runner problem the Tigers have, nor is base running the only problem the Tigers have!

Click to expand...

I would rather have JD 4. He has more power than V Mart.

I don't see the problem with separating the slow runners.

I think I would go with this lineup

vs RHP

Collins
Kinsler
Miggy
JD
V-Mart
J Up
Nick
Avila
Iggy

vs LHP

Iggy
Kinsler
Miggy
JD
J Up
Nick
V-Mart
McCann
Mahtook

vs RHP

1. Collins
2. Kinsler
3. Cabrera
4. V-Mart
5. J.D.
6. Upton
7. Castellanos
8. Avila
9. Iglesias

vs LHP
1. Iglesias
2. Kinsler
3. Cabrera
4. V-Mart
5. J.D.
6. McCann
7. Upton
8. Castellanos
9. Mahtook

Kinsler
Upton
Miggy
VMart
JD
Nick
CF
Iglesias
Avila/McCann

Fine with adjusting the last 4, but I'd run the top 5 every game minus off days.