4 Rabbis arrested on kidnapping charges

[MalFunkShun]

Religion... a bunch of "pick and choose" what you want to follow. Ugh.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Religion... a bunch of "pick and choose" what you want to follow. Ugh.

Pick and choose isn't a bad thing. It's an agent of change. It involves individual free thought. When nobody picks and chooses, when everybody has to follow every detail in the same way, it gets ugly.

 

[Gulo Blue]

For the record, I'm against capital punishment, at least in a place like the US. Curious what the board split is on that.

 

[Michchamp]

For the record, I'm against capital punishment, at least in a place like the US. Curious what the board split is on that.

I'm guessing everyone unfamiliar with the prevalence of prosecutorial abuse of power, police misconduct , and the number of exonerations we've seen over the years will be pro death penalty

Also, paradoxically, those who consider themselves "pro-life" will be largely pro-death penalty and pro-gun ownership even knowing that allows some guns to get in the hands of the mentally ill and deranged who will use them to kill many people in one of our nation's incredibly frequent mass shootings.

 

[Gulo Blue]

...and some will argue it's a matter of money; that it should be cheaper to enact the death penalty than to keep more people in prison. There are 3,100 people on death row. Meanwhile we have 2,400,000 in prisons for everything else. If costs are your concern, try evaluating conflict of interests of privately run prisons. You think they want to rehabilitate and release people or keep them in a state that justifies keeping them locked up on the books and bringing in more funding? That's a bigger deal than whether or not the death row inmates are a part of that population.

 

[Michchamp]

...and some will argue it's a matter of money; that it should be cheaper to enact the death penalty than to keep more people in prison. There are 3,100 people on death row. Meanwhile we have 2,400,000 in prisons for everything else. If costs are your concern, try evaluating conflict of interests of privately run prisons. You think they want to rehabilitate and release people or keep them in a state that justifies keeping them locked up on the books and bringing in more funding? That's a bigger deal than whether or not the death row inmates are a part of that population.

look at you! learning more about problems and seeing a "liberal" solution to them... amazing.

 

[Gulo Blue]

look at you! learning more about problems and seeing a "liberal" solution to them... amazing.

Just a part of my Catholic upbringing. Some of it is pretty liberal.

 

[zyxt9]

pro-DP (surprised I'm sure)...but admit there needs to be adjustments to the system as it has demonstrated it is currently flawed as champ mentions. still, just because something is flawed doesn't mean it doesn't have a legitimate use in the right situations. currently, it is flawed though and needs to be re-examined and fixed...that much is certain.

pro-abortion...women must always have the right to choose, and making it illegal just opens the door to black market, unsanitary abortions that are proven to be a bad solution. just like with the DP, abortion has a legitimate use in the right situations.

pro-gun ownership...still needs tweaking as well, but has legitimate uses also. funny how that keeps coming up, isn't it.

why is it that it has to be "All or Nothing" with so many people. there is a time and place for legitimate uses of each of these things but people get too caught up in the "All or Nothing" mentality.

 

[Michchamp]

I think you're beyond pro-death penalty, and are actually pro-summary execution.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I think you're beyond pro-death penalty, and are actually pro-summary execution.

Maybe even pro-vigilante execution.

 

[zyxt9]

Maybe even pro-vigilante execution.

in the right situation, sure. self defense is just a form of vigilante-ism, are you suggesting people don't have the right to protect themselves? heck, some vigilantes have been heralded as heroes for saving many lives...but maybe those saved lives do not balance the taking out of the bad guys in your algorithms.

time and place for it, but continue to be in the All or Nothing camp if you cannot comprehend that there can be circumstances that warrant such action. I just hope/pray none of us are ever placed in such dire circumstances and give thanks that they are extremely rare despite the media artificially increasing the regularity.

 

[zyxt9]

but just to clarify, I'm not in support of someone getting a bad guy into a neutralized position and then executing them...in case THAT is the "execution" you are referring to. if a threat is neutralized, then the legal system should provide the justice.

 

[Gulo Blue]

in the right situation, sure. self defense is just a form of vigilante-ism, are you suggesting people don't have the right to protect themselves? heck, some vigilantes have been heralded as heroes for saving many lives...but maybe those saved lives do not balance the taking out of the bad guys in your algorithms.

time and place for it, but continue to be in the All or Nothing camp if you cannot comprehend that there can be circumstances that warrant such action. I just hope/pray none of us are ever placed in such dire circumstances and give thanks that they are extremely rare despite the media artificially increasing the regularity.

I'm not in the all or nothing camp. But the time and place for capital punishment is in societies that are unable to maintain a prison system.

And I think people would generally draw a line between self-defense and vigilantism. I know the line may be fine in some circumstances, but I also think you know the difference.

 

[Gulo Blue]

You wanted to go hunting in Ukraine for anyone that didn't belong there. That goes beyond self-defense.

 

[Michchamp]

there is a pretty clear difference between self def and vigilantism. in the former case, there's a clear and present threat. In the latter case there is not.

traditionally, the law required the amount of force you used in self defense to be proportional to the threat, and you still had a duty to retreat (if possible). This really doesn't tie your hands in any unreasonable way. And the common law of self-defense & the castle doctrine had been methodically developed over the course of hundreds of years of human experience. Against that backdrop, the "stand your ground laws" appear extremely insane, rather than just "definitely insane" when you read them and their effects.

 

[Monster]

I'm for the death penalty but only in extreme cases like mass murder, child murder, and child molesters and rapists. There is no place in this world for those types of people and no time when it would be safe to ever release them.

 

[zyxt9]

You wanted to go hunting in Ukraine for anyone that didn't belong there. That goes beyond self-defense.

I said the punks who took the guys house, well if that was me I would have taken them out. they did not have the right to take the house by force, so I would have used force to either take it back or burn it to the ground. the punk who had the gun and threatened violence against me, the rightful home owner, now he would have taken out.

he made a threat with a gun while taking over my property.

also that area is currently without a police or justice system able to handle the situation. quite a big difference between that and the current state of the USA, no?

please do not put words in my mouth or take things out of context. you are trying to imply that I would have behaved that way in my current home in the USA. HUGE difference in context.

as I have said before, there is a time and place.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I said the punks who took the guys house, well if that was me I would have taken them out. they did not have the right to take the house by force, so I would have used force to either take it back or burn it to the ground. the punk who had the gun and threatened violence against me, the rightful home owner, now he would have taken out.

he made a threat with a gun while taking over my property.

also that area is currently without a police or justice system able to handle the situation. quite a big difference between that and the current state of the USA, no?

please do not put words in my mouth or take things out of context. you are trying to imply that I would have behaved that way in my current home in the USA. HUGE difference in context.

as I have said before, there is a time and place.

That's fair. So you're in favor of vigilantism where there is little to no police protection and just self-defense in the US? That differentiation is worth noting. But still, if given the environment for it, you're gung-ho for vigilantism.

I'd try to return around 4am and poor many gallons of gas around the outside then toss a couple molitov cocktails in and tell them to go ahead and stay there as long as they want, but they probably have sentries or someone staying up keeping an eye on the place.

sure seems things are heating up with the shootouts, fires, and such.

 

[Thumb]

I'm for the death penalty but only in extreme cases like mass murder, child murder, and child molesters and rapists. There is no place in this world for those types of people and no time when it would be safe to ever release them.

I believe you should only ever take a life to save a life.

This applies to combat soldiers/wartime actions as well IMHO.

But I kind of follow the 2 wrongs don't make a right ideal, so you take a serial killer, and execute him you have basically just done to him what you condemned him for. If it's wrong, morally and legally to take the life of a person, how do we get off justifying a prison doing it?

 

[spockmaster]

I believe you should only ever take a life to save a life.

This applies to combat soldiers/wartime actions as well IMHO.

But I kind of follow the 2 wrongs don't make a right ideal, so you take a serial killer, and execute him you have basically just done to him what you condemned him for. If it's wrong, morally and legally to take the life of a person, how do we get off justifying a prison doing it?

This.