Another school shooting

[sggatecl]

@michchamp

I know you're a fan of thoughts and prayers. Here's a more convenient way to get those in.

http://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com/

 

[turok]

Here's a more convenient way to get those in.

http://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com/

 

[hungry]

Anyone wanting to ban citizens from getting assault rifles, donate your money to these groups:

https://brokelyn.com/new-york-gun-control-groups-donations/

 

[hungry]

man, some of you are going to love this. The story says that his mom died 3 months ago...she had the flu. We need single payer healthcare!

but did she get a flu shot?

 

[SpartyNash]

@michchamp

I know you're a fan of thoughts and prayers. Here's a more convenient way to get those in.

http://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com/

That might be the greatest thing I’ve ever seen

 

[Michchamp]

but did she get a flu shot?

I'm home with the flu right now.

only one in my family who didn't get a flu shot.:ashamed:

 

[Michchamp]

@michchamp

I know you're a fan of thoughts and prayers. Here's a more convenient way to get those in.

http://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com/

typical lib BS. as if thoughts and prayers aren't helpful...

 

[Spartanmack]

Sure it is...thats why the majority of minorities in the US have consistently voted Republican, b/c they are no one's fools.

the black vote switched to the Democratic party well before the civil rights movement. they switched with the advent of social programs like welfare under Roosevelt and continued to vote Democrat even as your overtly racist party fought tooth and nail to prevent desegregation. They've been voting as a monolith ever since.

 

[Spartanmack]

No. They won't be effective. As long as the guns are in circulation, people who want to get them, will get them. What's your criteria on a mental health screening? What type of people can/can't buy these guns? It's an incredibly massive spectrum of issues. And Trump has already rolled back regulations on this, making it easier for people with problems to get guns.

Do you honestly think, at any point in the next 10 years, the government will say "We need to take over the country, let's start bombing our own people?" I would like to think that this nation is sophisticated and far enough along in society that we won't return to 1500.

Are you serious with the facts stuff? Do you want me to link you 50 websites or studies that show other countries that reduced gun ownership and how they have a direct connection to fewer gun deaths?

That's one thing we agree on. We don't care about gun control, because the gun lobbies own our government. So nothing will ever stop this from happening until we actually seek other advice from countries that have gone through the same steps.

How do you know they won't be effective? I'm not a mental health expert, so I would leave the answers to those questions to them, but I have to think mental health screening would be more effective than bans and grabs. We know with reasonable certainty that those won't work.


No, I honestly don't think that. But why do only the next 10 years matter and not the next 1,000? I would also like to think it could never happen but I'm not selfish enough to infringe other people's rights now or in the future.

don't bother with the 50 links, here's the truth, written by a disappointed gun control advocate...

https://nypost.com/2017/10/05/the-depressing-truth-about-gun-control/

and here's the truth about the 18 school shootings in 2018 lie that mc regurgitated...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...b6cf72-1264-11e8-8ea1-c1d91fcec3fe_story.html

Also, the gun lobby is not as big as you think. The NRA barely spends $2mm on lobbying, that's NOTHING. Gun lobbies don't own our country - that's not even close to true. What gun control advocates refuse to admit is that the gun rights movement is a grass roots movement of active citizens, not the NRA or gun manufacturers - people.

 

[Gulo Blue]

the black vote switched to the Democratic party well before the civil rights movement. they switched with the advent of welfare under Roosevelt and continued to vote Democrat even as your overtly racist party fought tooth and nail to prevent desegregation.

I don't feel like this description matches this chart.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Also, the gun lobby is not as big as you think. The NRA barely spends $2mm on lobbying, that's NOTHING. What gun control advocates refuse to admit is that the gun rights movement is a grass roots movement of active citizens, not the NRA or gun manufacturers - people.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/oct/11/counting-up-how-much-nra-spends/

The NRA’s biggest chunk of spending on politics came from "outside spending," consisting largely of "independent expenditures" — efforts "expressly advocating the election or defeat of a clearly identified candidate." Often these take the form of campaign ads, but they are carried out without coordinating with the candidates they are supporting.
This type of spending vastly outpaces what the NRA spent on giving to candidates directly. The NRA spent $144.3 million on outside spending, such as independent expenditures, during that period.
In addition, the NRA since 1998 has reported spending a cumulative $45.9 million on federal lobbying, both for its in-house operations and the outside consultants it has retained.
If you add it all up -- candidate and party contributions, independent expenditures, and lobbying -- the NRA has spent $203.2 million on political activities since 1998.

That's still not that much money, but it says something about sources to point to $2M of lobbying as if that paints the picture of what they do politically.

 

[Spartanmack]

Maybe according to someone like Alex Jones.

not Alex Jones, but to correct the record, it was his parents that were registered Democrats - there's little actually known about Roof's politics except that he liked to burn the American flag - not something conservatives are very fond of.

 

[Gulo Blue]

NRA advertising is grass roots?

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't feel like this description matches this chart.

I don't feel like this chart matches the facts in this article...

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/blacks-and-the-democratic-party/

this paragraph sums up why your chart is probably making you feel the way you do...

The election of Roosevelt in 1932 marked the beginning of a change. He got 71 percent of the black vote for president in 1936 and did nearly that well in the next two elections, according to historical figures kept by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies. But even then, the number of blacks identifying themselves as Republicans was about the same as the number who thought of themselves as Democrats.

Maybe you think how someone "identifies" is more important than how they vote. Identity over fact is all the rage these days - welcome to the left!

 

[Spartanmack]

NRA advertising is grass roots?

yes, campaign ads are directed at voters, not candidates. Do you really think campaign ads the same as lobbying dollars.

 

[Spartanmack]

reposting for correction...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/oct/11/counting-up-how-much-nra-spends/


That's still not that much money, but it says something about sources to point to $2M of lobbying as if that's paints the picture of what they do politically.

I stand corrected, the NRA spends about $2.29mm per year since 1998, not $2mm. I pulled the $2mm number from memory and couldn't confirm that is was actually a little bit higher because I have limited internet access at work (somehow I get DSF - I guess we're not on the radar). Please forgive me.

As for the advertising, that's a grass roots campaign to mobilize voters - that's WAY different than lobbying and actually "owning" politicians.

 

[dubbsco]

How do you know they won't be effective? I'm not a mental health expert, so I would leave the answers to those questions to them, but I have to think mental health screening would be more effective than bans and grabs. We know with reasonable certainty that those won't work.


No, I honestly don't think that. But why do only the next 10 years matter and not the next 1,000? I would also like to think it could never happen but I'm not selfish enough to infringe other people's rights now or in the future.

don't bother with the 50 links, here's the truth, written by a disappointed gun control advocate...

https://nypost.com/2017/10/05/the-depressing-truth-about-gun-control/

and here's the truth about the 18 school shootings in 2018 lie that mc regurgitated...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...b6cf72-1264-11e8-8ea1-c1d91fcec3fe_story.html

Also, the gun lobby is not as big as you think. The NRA barely spends $2mm on lobbying, that's NOTHING. Gun lobbies don't own our country - that's not even close to true. What gun control advocates refuse to admit is that the gun rights movement is a grass roots movement of active citizens, not the NRA or gun manufacturers - people.

Well I am, so feel free to leave that question to someone like... me? You'll stop some. I don't think you fully understand the scope of issues that would have to be addressed. People say "we have to fix mental health to solve the gun issue." Got some magic pills or something lying around? Mental health is a comprehensive, lifelong thing for each person.

Because it's 2018. That's the paranoia that people live on who live through the 2nd amendment. We've evolved enough as a country where our government is not a dictatorship. It will never turn into one, there's too much knowledge today. The government isn't going to collect all of our guns and then turn on us.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-...2017-11#the-uk-took-a-multipronged-approach-4

48 more to go, but didn't feel like giving them all to you.

Stop acting like America is so freaking unique and special compared to other countries. People are people. Those countries just had the foresight to try something. Yeah I get it, they have other crimes (which is always the immediate response).

http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/nra-contributions-politicians-senators/

The amount that the NRA gives for lobbying means dick. The amount that they give to the US Senators who are the ones pulling the strings for the republicans, that's what you need to pay attention to.

Here's the bottom line. People don't need AR-15s. People don't need assault rifles. They are designed for the military and require EXTENSIVE use to handle. And your only argument against that is "Well, the government might rise up in 1000 years and take us down." Share your paranoia with the thousands of families that will be never the same. See how they take it.

This is where I'll leave this conversation. We don't have the guts to try anything, so this stuff will just keep happening. Mental health will keep getting shouted, as though that's the only solution. Life's tough, we can't all have what we want. That's why we have a society; we give up things for the better of the group. There's NO benefit to an AR-15, other than having it around for fun.

Our country is so fixated with guns. And that's how it will always be until we change or eliminate something made in the 1700s to protect people from an uprising.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I don't feel like this chart matches the facts in this article...

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/blacks-and-the-democratic-party/

this paragraph sums up why your chart is probably making you feel the way you do...


Maybe you think how someone "identifies" is more important than how they vote. Identity over fact is all the rage these days - welcome to the left!

That's fair. I look at that chart, and I see a switch that took a long time. The Civil Right act happened near the end of this switch, but >70%? I'm sold on the statement that the vote shifted before the Act.

Whether a discussion should focus on the difference between identity and vote depends on the point being made.

 

[Spartanmack]

Well I am, so feel free to leave that question to someone like... me? You'll stop some. I don't think you fully understand the scope of issues that would have to be addressed. People say "we have to fix mental health to solve the gun issue." Got some magic pills or something lying around? Mental health is a comprehensive, lifelong thing for each person.

Because it's 2018. That's the paranoia that people live on who live through the 2nd amendment. We've evolved enough as a country where our government is not a dictatorship. It will never turn into one, there's too much knowledge today. The government isn't going to collect all of our guns and then turn on us.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-...2017-11#the-uk-took-a-multipronged-approach-4

48 more to go, but didn't feel like giving them all to you.

Stop acting like America is so freaking unique and special compared to other countries. People are people. Those countries just had the foresight to try something. Yeah I get it, they have other crimes (which is always the immediate response).

http://fortune.com/2018/02/15/nra-contributions-politicians-senators/

The amount that the NRA gives for lobbying means dick. The amount that they give to the US Senators who are the ones pulling the strings for the rebpulicans, that's what you need to pay attention to.

Here's the bottom line. People don't need AR-15s. People don't need assault rifles. They are designed for the military and require EXTENSIVE use to handle. And your only argument against that is "Well, the government might rise up in 1000 years and take us down." Share your paranoia with the thousands of families that will be never the same. See how they take it.

you're an expert on gun violence and mental health - please tell us more. If mental health is a comprehensive lifelong thing, shouldn't we do something to keep guns out of the hands of at least the most severely affected?

Yes it's 2018, thanks, but I have a calendar on my desk to remind me. This may come as a surprise to you, but our government never was a dictatorship - yet the founders still thought it was necessary for a well armed citizenry to keep it in check. And countries don't evolve in one direction - things can change now (not likely) and in the future (who knows how likely).

You can stop now with the links, they've already been debunked. I'll repost mine here if it helps...

https://nypost.com/2017/10/05/the-depressing-truth-about-gun-control/

And please stop pretending that America isn't so freaking special or unique. People are people, but countries aren't countries. They're not all the same. It's imperfect but easily the greatest Republic ever built. No society has ever accomplished what we have - again, we're not perfect, but we're the best, hands down. And I never made the argument about crime in other countries - please reread the article I've now posted twice, that's not a central part of the argument that disputes your claims about gun control.

The amount of money the NRA gives to US senators IS the lobbying. And it's not that big relative to a lot of other special interest groups. The NRA isn't a big donor, they don't have a significant lobbying group. Most of the money they spend on political endeavors is on advertising - mostly against gun control advocates.

Here's the bottom line, I'm not even a little bit paranoid. I don't fear government tyranny - I don't even own a gun. I just don't think it's unreasonable to believe that won't always be the case so I'm not willing to take that right from others. I do support reasonable gun control measures (background checks, mental health screening, banning bump stocks, etc). I'm not sure what you mean by an AR-15 requiring "extensive use" to handle, but it's actually not an assault weapon. It's no different than any other semi-automatic rifle or pistol for that matter. you just fear it because it looks like a military style assault weapon but you can get a rifle that looks nothing like an AR-15 that fires the same rounds at the same rate. As for your standing on the graves of victims to shame people for disagreeing with your ineffective positions - that's been tried, and it doesn't work. Families of victims fallout on both sides of the debate.

 

[Gulo Blue]

yes, campaign ads are directed at voters, not candidates. Do you really think campaign ads the same as lobbying dollars.

Why would you think I think campaign ads are the same as lobbying dollars?

Grass roots isn't all about the form of political activity, it's also about where it comes from. Russian facebook ads were directed at voters, does that make that effort grassroots?