Appalachian State Rematch

[deathroh]

I guess the nature of the loss is in the eye of the beholder.

If you really believed our 2007 team was a legit national title contender, then yes, the Appalachian State loss was terrible. But if afterward, you dialed down your expectations, and realized that team was not as good as advertised, I think the oregon game was worse. Much worse.

Appalachian State was an example of an overconfident team not taking a minor (but still talented) opponent as seriously as they should have.

but Oregon was a brutal loss. we didn't even belong on the same field as them. that feeling of hopelessness was pretty shocking to me.

I don't think I'd felt that hopeless while watching a Michigan game since that Rose Bowl loss to Washington in the early 90's where napoleon kaufman ran wild.

Worst performance? Oregon, hands down.

 

[deathroh]

I was going to mention something about the revionist history aspect of it too. When I think about a loss I take a snapshot of the moment in time that it happened. The shock and disappointment I had after App St easily outweighs the demoralized feeling I had during/after Oregon.

But I guess I'm looking more at the negative impact that a loss created, rather than how poorly they played. To me the former is more important in a historical context.

 

[Michchamp]

Worst performance? Oregon, hands down.

for me bad performance and bad loss are almost one and the same.

really, aside from some awful defense (especially from Johnny Sears...) & special teams, we didn't play that bad against App St. we scored 32 pts, + left another 7 on the field, i.e. two missed 2pt conversions & a missed FG.

we win that game 39-34 or even 35-34 and it's a completely different story. Oregon on the other hand...

after that season ended, I went back in my head and wondered if we could've really won a national title if we did things differently. I don't think there's any way we could've beaten Oregon. Maybe if the defense was better we could've kept it closer down the stretch, but it still would've been a loss.

if you went back a few years and had a younger Carr at the helm, and a more experienced DC (Mattison...) MAYBE that 2007 team could've made more of a splash.

 

[Michchamp]

I was going to mention something about the revionist history aspect of it too. ...

I think good history takes into account both the actual events as they are experienced, as well as some revisionist aspect when all is said and done to put things into perspective. so the App. St. loss was at the time, the biggest upset in CFB history, but in retrospect, the Oregon game showed that the early season Michigan team was not as good as advertised. And then as the season went on, we had other big upsets, most notably the Stanford-USC game, which was technically bigger if you go by the spread. so after everything, the APp St loss to me wasn't really that big of a deal.

 

[TheVictors]

The reason the App State loss was so "bad" is because it was essentially unprecedented -- for a small, lesser school to beat the mighty Michigan, and in Ann Arbor no less!!

But ...there were indications from other early season games under Carr, that the team played very much DOWN to the level of competition. The hubris and arrogance of the program peaked and App State -- a much more athletic and focused group -- pulled off a stunning and shocking win against a Michigan team that still almost managed to save face and win.

The next week -- against "Oregon," a program said to be somewhat on par with Michigan, but not really -- Dennis Dixon, a taller, faster more Pro-like spread QB than App State featured absolutely pantsed an entire football program.

The App State loss may be "worse" because a team like that should *never* beat Michigan ...but for a peer like Oregon to absolutely throttle Michigan, in Ann Arbor ...well that was "worse" in my opinion.

And when my friend who'd played for Oregon was texting me from the game that it looked like "your boys quit, dude ...this is getting really ugly"

That was a sign.

 

[deathroh]

for me bad performance and bad loss are almost one and the same.

I guess I'm lumping the ramifications of the loss in with the performance. Which to me makes sense, but I understand where you're coming from.

 

[deathroh]

And when my friend who'd played for Oregon was texting me from the game that it looked like "your boys quit, dude ...this is getting really ugly"

That was a sign.

Maybe it was a sign that the team was demoralized after experiencing the worst loss in their lives?

 

[TheVictors]

Maybe it was a sign that the team was demoralized after experiencing the worst loss in their lives?

Well, walking out of Michigan Stadium following the 17-10 loss to cankles and noter dame sucks (as the #3 ranked team in the nation), there were choruses of "Fire Lloyd Carr!" back on the golf course, as angry fans arrived back at the tailgates. I thought that was a bit harsh, given how the team had fumbled the game away, but the fans were pissed regardless.

Flash forward to 2008 and the team overlooks App State and loses in unprecedented fashion ....but played four more times, my guess is that Michigan goes 4-1 vs App State, after the wake-up call.

Play Oregon five times and Michigan goes 0-5, hands down.


That's why I call it a "worse" loss but also recognize it as something almost needed in order to advance the program, at least now in hindsight.

 

[byco42]

I'll not concede that M loses to O five in a row.

 

[Michchamp]

...

That's why I call it a "worse" loss but also recognize it as something almost needed in order to advance the program, at least now in hindsight.

well... it was a wake-up call at least.

whether it advanced the program... I don't know. We went from this, to finishing a decent 9-4 with a great Bowl win, to hiring RichRod. Anything the returning players & Carr's staff gained by enduring the App St & Oregon losses was rendered moot at that point. Hiring RichRod basically set the clock back to Year 1 of the Michigan program.

in the end, being willing to pay Mattison big bucks to be our DC might've been the answer, but I think that was due more to the absolutely atrocious performance of the defense under RR...

IF maybe the App St &/or Oregon losses destroyed whatever credibility Carr had to manage the hiring of his successor, and convinced BM to go completely outside Carr's staff, then well.. they really were a disaster.

 

[Michchamp]

I'll not concede that M loses to O five in a row.

I think it depends on whether these are 5 games played in a row, or the same game played 5 times without the benefit of hindsight.

if the latter, I could see us going 0-5. In the former, maybe we win 1 or 2.

 

[TheVictors]

Oregon held back in 2nd half of that game. The outcome could have been much, much worse than the actual final score. As for "advancing," that's debatable. I just never subscribed to the notion of a DeBord taking over as being much more than yet another bandaid on an otherwise gushing wound. It didn't have to be Rich Rod bad, but it was hard to stay in denial following the opening to the 2008 season, that the M program was not infallable or unbeatable.
____________________________________________________
Jonathan Stewart ran for 111 yards and a TD against a defense that looked confused at times and slow at others.

"It's kind of funny. I was looking at one of their D-lineman and was like, `He's about to quit,' " Stewart said.

...Dixon and the Ducks' spread offense, which is similar to what Appalachian State runs, had its way. Oregon racked up 624 yards, the second-highest total by a Michigan opponent in its 128 years of football.

"I would say our whole offense was in the zone," Dixon said.

While Michigan was expected to struggle defensively, many envisioned its offense -- widely regarded as one of the nation's best a little more than week ago -- to create a shootout.

(from an ESPN recap of the game)

 

[hungry]

It was 2007, dude

 

[TheVictors]

interesting Freudian slip as it was indeed 2007

 

[hungry]

interesting Freudian slip as it was indeed 2007

Well, i was going to let it go, but then you did it again.