Bain Money Honest; Obama Team isn't

[oletoes]

Even U of M benefited $130 million from Bain:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bain-370040-million-retirement.html

 

[Michchamp]

Bullshit.

Taibbi is the only journalist in america pulling the curtain back on how leveraged buyouts/private equity operates:

what most voters don't know is the way Mitt Romney actually made his fortune: by borrowing vast sums of money that other people were forced to pay back. This is the plain, stark reality that has somehow eluded America's top political journalists for two consecutive presidential campaigns: Mitt Romney is one of the greatest and most irresponsible debt creators of all time. In the past few decades, in fact, Romney has piled more debt onto more unsuspecting companies, written more gigantic checks that other people have to cover, than perhaps all but a handful of people on planet Earth.

By making debt the centerpiece of his campaign, Romney was making a calculated bluff of historic dimensions ? placing a massive all-in bet on the rank incompetence of the American press corps. The result has been a brilliant comedy: A man makes a $250 million fortune loading up companies with debt and then extracting million-dollar fees from those same companies, in exchange for the generous service of telling them who needs to be fired in order to finance the debt payments he saddled them with in the first place. That same man then runs for president riding an image of children roasting on flames of debt, choosing as his running mate perhaps the only politician in America more pompous and self-righteous on the subject of the evils of borrowed money than the candidate himself. If Romney pulls off this whopper, you'll have to tip your hat to him: No one in history has ever successfully run for president riding this big of a lie. It's almost enough to make you think he really is qualified for the White House.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...omney-and-bain-capital-20120829#ixzz25bnIILRu
​

​

 

[Michchamp]

more:

...if the target company is worth $500 million, Bain might put down $20 million of its own cash, then borrow $350 million from an investment bank to take over a controlling stake. But here's the catch. When Bain borrows all of that money from the bank, it's the target company that ends up on the hook for all of the debt.


Now your troubled firm ? let's say you make tricycles in Alabama ? has been taken over by a bunch of slick Wall Street dudes who kicked in as little as five percent as a down payment. So in addition to whatever problems you had before, Tricycle Inc. now owes Goldman or Citigroup $350 million. With all that new debt service to pay, the company's bottom line is suddenly untenable: You almost have to start firing people immediately just to get your costs down to a manageable level. "That interest," says Lynn Turner, former chief accountant of the Securities and Exchange Commission, "just sucks the profit out of the company."

Fortunately, the geniuses at Bain who now run the place are there to help tell you whom to fire. And for the service it performs cutting your company's costs to help you pay off the massive debt that it, Bain, saddled your company with in the first place, Bain naturally charges a management fee, typically millions of dollars a year. So Tricycle Inc. now has two gigantic new burdens it never had before Bain Capital stepped into the picture: tens of millions in annual debt service, and millions more in "management fees." Since the initial acquisition of Tricycle Inc. was probably greased by promising the company's upper management lucrative bonuses, all that pain inevitably comes out of just one place: the benefits and payroll of the hourly workforce.

​

 

[oletoes]

So are you saying that these Universities, California Public Employees’ Retirement System and Teachers Unions etc have NOT invested in Bain and benefited?

 

[oletoes]

Because, I'm simply pointing out that the Dems rush to criticize Bain Capital, yet have invested a great deal and benefited from the profits. Is this not true?

 

[tinselwolverine]

When exactly did that Tricycle Inc. of Alabama acquisition that Taibbi refers to occur?

And which was the financier - Taibbi mentions two - so was it Goldman or was it Citigroup?

Because except for the Taibbi article, I don't find a record of it.

No wonder it's been so hard for the American news media to uncover this type of chicanery.

 

[Michchamp]

When exactly did that Tricycle Inc. of Alabama acquisition that Taibbi refers to occur?

And which was the financier - Taibbi mentions two - so was it Goldman or was it Citigroup?

Because except for the Taibbi article, I don't find a record of it.

No wonder it's been so hard for the American news media to uncover this type of chicanery.

that was an illustration of how the typical LBO works.

Romney & Co. find a moderately profitable manufacturer, calculate how much it would cost to buy a controlling share, and borrow that money from a bigger investment bank.

then put the manufacturer on the hook for debt & interest payments on the debt. pay yourself (and to a lesser extent your investors) a "dividend" from whatever cash the manufacturer has on hand, or if it's still creditworthy after being saddled with the bank debt, take out another loan and pay that out as a "dividend."

the manufacturer is now completely fucked... Romney & Co. did NOTHING to create value for it, but profited handsomely because of loopholes in the tax code & a gov't that sits there on its hands and doesn't police this sort of financial piracy.

 

[Michchamp]

Because, I'm simply pointing out that the Dems rush to criticize Bain Capital, yet have invested a great deal and benefited from the profits. Is this not true?

are the dems one solid unified group that all share the same bank account?

you aren't pointing shit out. you're cutting and pasting from whatever right-wing blog is feeding this info out there as part of the damage control from the fallout over Taibbi's article.

you probably don't even have a clue yourself what any of this means.

 

[oletoes]

haven't cut and pasted anything in fact, you did. I supplied a link to an article that indicates Hypocrisy in the Liberal agenda to attack a company in which a great deal of liberal groups benefited from.

I'll ask again, is that information incorrect? or are you just going to assume you are the smartest prick in the world because you in fact copied and pasted parts of a slanted article from Taibbi himself and turned around to criticize me for posting the link?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Interesting, but why isn't Taibbi citing a transaction that actually happened as an example, rather than making one up?

Taibbi and Rolling Stone is kind of the flip side of where "theesmith" gets his information.

Every single Public Employee Retireuent Fund cited by the OC Register guy actually exists (I checked them all) but Tricycle Inc. of Alabama doesn't.

In this case, I go with the OC Register guy over Taibbi on credibility.

 

[tinselwolverine]

are the dems one solid unified group that all share the same bank account?

you aren't pointing shit out. you're cutting and pasting from whatever right-wing blog is feeding this info out there as part of the damage control from the fallout over Taibbi's article.

you probably don't even have a clue yourself what any of this means.

Ha, ha...

Sorry man, but...The OC Register? A right wing blog?

 

[Slick]

there are alot of Bain guys running around the DNC this week in Charlotte.

 

[Slick]

haven't cut and pasted anything in fact, you did. I supplied a link to an article that indicates Hypocrisy in the Liberal agenda to attack a company in which a great deal of liberal groups benefited from.

I'll ask again, is that information incorrect? or are you just going to assume you are the smartest prick in the world because you in fact copied and pasted parts of a slanted article from Taibbi himself and turned around to criticize me for posting the link?

Liberal agenda ?? and whats the right wing agenda...fuck the fact checkers we'll just spew our shit and make it true if we say it enough times :lmao:

 

[oletoes]

Liberal agenda ?? and whats the right wing agenda...fuck the fact checkers we'll just spew our shit and make it true if we say it enough times :lmao:

Yes, Liberal Agenda........and I don't see any right wing agenda from the article I posted. The author of the article is actual a Libertarian. Did you even read it?

 

[Slick]

Yes, Liberal Agenda........and I don't see any right wing agenda from the article I posted. The author of the article is actual a Libertarian. Did you even read it?

I could careless about Bain...attacking him on it or not , they gutted companies and ruined lives as well as helped people and improved lives , its a wash for me.

like I said the right wing agenda is spew the shit and see what sticks or swift boat them...only problem is this time they found a Democrat who will get down and the mud with them.

 

[Michchamp]

Interesting, but why isn't Taibbi citing a transaction that actually happened as an example, rather than making one up?

Taibbi and Rolling Stone is kind of the flip side of where "theesmith" gets his information.

Every single Public Employee Retireuent Fund cited by the OC Register guy actually exists (I checked them all) but Tricycle Inc. of Alabama doesn't.

In this case, I go with the OC Register guy over Taibbi on credibility.

he cites several in this article.

Taibbi is not the flip side of where tsmith gets his noise.

and his criticism of Obama & Bush for their coziness to Wall Street has been entirely consistent; he hasn't softened his approach just because a Dem is in the Whitehouse.

read his columns... just last week he took Eric Holder to task for declaring Wall Street was essentially off limits. he even used some pretty harsh language.

to some the Bain article would seem a clearly partisan attack, but it needs to be done for the reasons he cites in the article: the Romney camp has been presenting the nature of Romney's work at Bain in a false light, and the American press has been complacent in it because they are too clueless to do the investigative journalism needed.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Taibbi could have used as an example the fictiotious leveraged buyout from Pretty Woman instead, it would have actually made his point better than the one that he made up himself.

 

[Michchamp]

the fact that some universities, left-wing leaning organizations, or even labor unions themselves invested with Bain doesn't change the fact that Bain/Romney were part of a dirty business, a "business" more akin to piracy and outright theft, than anything else.

the fact is, there was a ton of misinformation and misunderstanding about the nature of the type of stuff Bain was (and still is) doing. the people should understand this, and misleading crap about universities earning some interest here or there from investing some of their endowments with Bain or its ilk doesn't exactly set the record straight for voters.

Obama's presidency has been bad enough for the middle class (and this from a supposedly "liberal socialist" who wants to "spread the wealth").

Romney would oversee a wholesale plunder of the economy.

 

[redandguilty]

more:

...if the target company is worth $500 million, Bain might put down $20 million of its own cash, then borrow $350 million from an investment bank to take over a controlling stake. But here's the catch. When Bain borrows all of that money from the bank, it's the target company that ends up on the hook for all of the debt.


Now your troubled firm ? let's say you make tricycles in Alabama ? has been taken over by a bunch of slick Wall Street dudes who kicked in as little as five percent as a down payment. So in addition to whatever problems you had before, Tricycle Inc. now owes Goldman or Citigroup $350 million. With all that new debt service to pay, the company's bottom line is suddenly untenable: You almost have to start firing people immediately just to get your costs down to a manageable level. "That interest," says Lynn Turner, former chief accountant of the Securities and Exchange Commission, "just sucks the profit out of the company."

Fortunately, the geniuses at Bain who now run the place are there to help tell you whom to fire. And for the service it performs cutting your company's costs to help you pay off the massive debt that it, Bain, saddled your company with in the first place, Bain naturally charges a management fee, typically millions of dollars a year. So Tricycle Inc. now has two gigantic new burdens it never had before Bain Capital stepped into the picture: tens of millions in annual debt service, and millions more in "management fees." Since the initial acquisition of Tricycle Inc. was probably greased by promising the company's upper management lucrative bonuses, all that pain inevitably comes out of just one place: the benefits and payroll of the hourly workforce.

​

The previous owners are also potentially big winners in this scheme, so I can see why they'd help Bain do this sort of thing.

 

[redandguilty]

Even U of M benefited $130 million from Bain:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/bain-370040-million-retirement.html

Entrusting $130 M to Bain is not the same thing as benefiting by $130 M.