DURR it's cold outside there can't be no global warming or hurrrrr

[Spartanmack]

You make weird choices sometimes.

you need a lot of painfully obvious stuff explained to you.

 

[Michchamp]

the '03 Northeast Blackout has nothing in common with this one.

this was a problem of a lack of power - most at coal and gas plants, and lack of winterized/hardened plant equipment.

Apparently the same thing happened here 10 years ago, with no changes being made.

Seems like a devastating event that occurs once a decade, kills some number of people, greatly inconveniences millions more, costs businesses many millions of dollars in lost work time and sales, etc. should be worth budgeting for, and if the semi-private sector they leave it up to won't make the effort, then the government should step
in and do it, or force them to.

This mentality is insane, but all too prevalent today. guy is a total shithead.

 

[Michchamp]

fuck these people so hard:

The current incentives in electricity markets harm residential electricity consumers. Texas electricity generators, with multiple plants on the interconnection grid, receive much more money if they do not weatherize a few of their plants properly. As a consequence, these poorly weatherized plants must shut down during cold weather. All generating plants that remain online receive the spiking electricity prices, and the generating company makes much more money than if all their plants were operating properly. This is only one way privatizers are gaming the Texas electricity market: using laws and rules set up by their lobbyists.​

article is from 2014, but by all the accounts I've read this is the current regime implemented when GW Bush "deregulated" Texas energy markets during his tenure as governor.

No one should be able to profit by neglecting to invest enough in capacity or preparing their plants for something with a 10% chance of happening in any given winter... and any system that provides those incentives should be dismantled or "RE-regulated"

can anyone actually disagree with that?

 

[sggatecl]

No one should be able to profit by neglecting to invest enough in capacity or preparing their plants for something with a 10% chance of happening in any given winter... and any system that provides those incentives should be dismantled or "RE-regulated"

can anyone actually disagree with that?

1. Get warned about a potentially major crisis.
2. Deny and ignore. Be manly, claim you won't live in fear. Call everyone else alarmists.
3. Major crisis occurs, hurting/affecting far more people than would've been if steps or procedures followed after step 1.
4. Deflect to culture war. Claim they're the real danger, even though it's YOUR policy that happened to fail miserably.
5. Repeat. Collect the votes of 1 issue voters you continuously hurt.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It's all coming together:

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/b...r-outage-claims-climate-change-002303596.html
"Bill Gates says Texas Gov. Greg Abbott's explanation for power outages is 'actually wrong'"

 

[Gulo Blue]

https://www.khou.com/article/news/i...grid/285-67277280-7fce-42ca-b55b-f8fc639c0889
"Texas counties with fewer power outages are not part of state grid"

 

[Gulo Blue]

I only just heard about ERCOT with this thread, but I suspect this isn't capitalism vs socialism, it's probably about regulatory capture. I'd frame it as capitalism vs regulatory capture, but that might be another topic.

 

[sggatecl]

I only just heard about ERCOT with this thread, but I suspect this isn't capitalism vs socialism, it's probably about regulatory capture. I'd frame it as capitalism vs regulatory capture, but that might be another topic.

It's definitely not capitalism vs socialism. I don't see how one would think that. Most of the arguments I've read have been debates on regulation and how/why Texas (and elsewhere) needs more or less.

 

[Michchamp]

I only just heard about ERCOT with this thread, but I suspect this isn't capitalism vs socialism, it's probably about regulatory capture. I'd frame it as capitalism vs regulatory capture, but that might be another topic.

It is apparently the mother of all regulatory captures. Read the last link I posted:

The benefits of deregulated free market competition in the electric power industry are only from financiers’ and corporations’ viewpoint; not from the standpoint of lowering residential electricity consumers’ monthly bills or increasing reliability. The Texas electric power market is not really deregulated – political code for “lower costs.”? On the contrary, electric utilities have been reconfigured and reregulated so corporations win and residential consumers lose.​

saw this comment in the news aggregator this morning.

This same Harvard professor that supposedly designed the policy is apparently a bit of a psychopath, if the screenshotted quote is accurate. I guess liberal elitist college professors are A-OKAY, when they help you design systems to engage in psychopathic rent-seeking off basic human needs like "not freezing to death in winter."

it's not capitalism vs. socialism... those labels are unnecessarily polarizing here.

it's a simple question of whether government is going to basically step aside and allow rent-seeking psychos to come in, monopolize the supply of something that's a basic human need & provide it at extortion-level prices, OR put those psychos where they belong: in jail.

same thing in healthcare. same thing in pharmaceuticals.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Read the last link I posted:

The benefits of deregulated free market competition in the electric power industry are only from financiers? and corporations? viewpoint; not from the standpoint of lowering residential electricity consumers? monthly bills or increasing reliability. The Texas electric power market is not really deregulated ? political code for ?lower costs.?? On the contrary, electric utilities have been reconfigured and reregulated so corporations win and residential consumers lose.​

saw this comment in the news aggregator this morning.

This same Harvard professor that supposedly designed the policy is apparently a bit of a psychopath, if the screenshotted quote is accurate. I guess liberal elitist college professors are A-OKAY, when they help you design systems to engage in psychopathic rent-seeking off basic human needs like "not freezing to death in winter."

I'm sure demand increased, but why don't these comments on the economics ever focus on the decreased supply?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Do Texans have some kind of live electricity price ticker displayed in their homes somewhere? How is this supposed to work?

 

[Gulo Blue]

It's definitely not capitalism vs socialism. I don't see how one would think that.

Easy. Be super right wing and blame all problems on socialism.

edit: I can see I'm playing catch up and everybody already knew this was a regulatory (or straight corruption?) issue

 

[Gulo Blue]

you need a lot of painfully obvious stuff explained to you.

There's nothing wrong with this. The problem is when you have can't things explained to you.

 

[Michchamp]

I'm sure demand increased, but why don't these comments on the economics ever focus on the decreased supply?

Why would they? Did you expect Bernie Madoff would've told each new investor he was running a ponzi scheme?

"Hey, pass all this legislation we want to allow us to rig your electrical grid for our own profit in exchange for increased investment in capacity, and oh by the way before you sign anything, know we have no intention of investing in increased capacity. Since we know you're not even listening, we'll further explain to you that by neglecting to invest in increased capacity we'll make even MORE money by gouging customers when rates spike."

(George W. Bush laughs and signs bill anyway)

 

[Michchamp]

Do Texans have some kind of live electricity price ticker displayed in their homes somewhere? How is this supposed to work?

You sign up to buy electricity from a local provider that's supposed to provide you with certain rates, and there is a lot of fine print in the documents. There's a lot of "you're saving money by having a choice here because markets" language in all the ads

My electricity bills have definitely been higher here than in Illinois, but not like insanely so. I def pay $100 more a month in the summers, but kinda figured that was due to the heat & having a bigger house. Which makes sense, but doesn't exactly align with the "energy should be cheaper in TX because we got big government out of the way and let the energy companies do whatever they want" line of bullshit.

That should always be understood to be a bad thing now. Too much practical evidence against it.

You let financiers run things and they don't play nice and compete in a free market like they say, they monopolize things and collect outsize rents until they bleed the customers dry. Parasites on human society

 

[Michchamp]

At least Ted's warm.

 

[tomdalton22]

At least Ted's warm.

your power back on?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Ok. I'm sold on ERCOT. Brilliant. I don't think you even need a person controlling the plant. Just use the stock price ticker to control turbine engagement.

 

[byco42]

Ok. I'm sold on ERCOT. Brilliant. I don't think you even need a person controlling the plant. Just use the stock price ticker to control turbine engagement.

Tag line: Bid for Power.

 

[Michchamp]

We got power back at 2 AM Wed. No water due to burst pipe, and plumbers are all booked up, so despite assurances he'll be by today, I have no idea when we'll have water, and city supplies are all fucked up regardless, so if we do have pressure, we might still be under a boil water advisory for a couple days.


This is a nightmare... you don't sleep well because you're cold & constantly waking up to check on things. Everyone is irritable. I have a constant headache.



We haven't even had it that bad. House fire killed 4 people in a neighborhood nearby (including three kids). I've seen tons of stories of carbon monoxide poisonings, house fires, and pipes burst all over, rendering everything from single family homes to apartment blocks flooded.


And it's not like we have a choice here... I can't decide to go buy power from another state... I have to stay a customer of the same psychopaths that created this disaster.