Fast and Furious

[tsmith7559]

final nail for the prez

 

[cheeno]

EP is nothing new, recently invoked 14 times by Clinton and 6 times by Bush. They can still release documents and are playing politics right now. That being said the actual FAF program was a huge f'up. We'll have to see how it all plays out.

 

[Michchamp]

was a huge F-up, but compared to other huge F-ups, like the invasion of Iraq, the intelligence failures that allowed 9/11 to happen, the housing collapse, TARP... it's really not that big of a deal. If none of those things troubled a person... this shouldn't either.

as far as I'm concerned - and based on what I've read to date - it sounds like the whole thing was dreamed up by some bureaucrat in the ATF, and then bungled horribly upon implementation. Holder & Obama are no more liable for this than Bush would've been personally liable for any of the heinous massacres conducted by US troops in Iraq or Afghanistan...

 

[tsmith7559]

Obama indicated no knowledge of F&F.....he cant use EP to save his AG.......or he now must admit knowing all about it.

 

[Thumb]

final nail for the prez

Which was the first?

Man, I'm going to be laughing my ass off in November at all the Right Wing Rage.

 

[tsmith7559]

Which was the first?

Man, I'm going to be laughing my ass off in November at all the Right Wing Rage.

this isnt the second nail....there have been many

 

[Michchamp]

For the record: Issa is a scumbag. Just read the wikipedia article on him... lying about his service record, DUIs, auto-theft, insurance fraud... then he hits it big with car alarms in the 80s.

Again, Fast and Furious was stupid, and a mess, but it's not like the Obama Administration came up with it. The ATF had been running similar operations since Bush Jr. was prez. See here.

second of all... it's not even a big deal. the Right keeps ranting about people who died, but get real. None of these people really value human life. If they did, they would've gone to Iraq as human shields in 2003. You can't pick and choose what life matters to you and still have any credibility.

 

[Michchamp]

For the record: Issa is a scumbag. Just read the wikipedia article on him... lying about his service record, DUIs, auto-theft, insurance fraud... then he hits it big with car alarms in the 80s.

Again, Fast and Furious was stupid, and a mess, but it's not like the Obama Administration came up with it. The ATF had been running similar operations since Bush Jr. was prez. See here.

second of all... it's not even a big deal. the Right keeps ranting about people who died, but get real. None of these people really value human life. If they did, they would've gone to Iraq as human shields in 2003. You can't pick and choose what life matters to you and still have any credibility.

mountain out of a molehill...

if this is the best scandal the GOP can come up with to hit Obama with in an election year, I'd say he's looking good to retain the WH.

 

[cheeno]

mountain out of a molehill...

if this is the best scandal the GOP can come up with to hit Obama with in an election year, I'd say he's looking good to retain the WH.

Tell that to the parents of Brian Terry.

 

[tsmith7559]

mountain out of a molehill...

if this is the best scandal the GOP can come up with to hit Obama with in an election year, I'd say he's looking good to retain the WH.

They have been asking for the documents for 18 months, this just didnt pop up yesterday.
Transparency??? where is the transparency Barack???? This makes Watergate look like a speeding ticket

 

[TheVictors]

how cute.


self-righteous moral indignation to support previously held beliefs.



Wire-tapping hippies in Berkeley = National Security
Conducting the National Census = Totalitarian Regime

Iran/Contra Scandal = "I Don't Recall"
Fast and Furious = The Greatest Scandal in the History of Government

 

[tsmith7559]

"what did you know...when did you know it".........
"deja vu all over again"

 

[tinselwolverine]

Contempt of Congress is a pretty big reach to take against an Attorney General of the United States.

For example, if an Attorney General were to have testified to Congress that that Attorney General was unaware of the whereabouts of a person, and if it were to later be found that, at that time, that person's body had been in the trunk of the Attorney General's car, then yes, in that instance, Contempt of Congress would be understandable.

Anything short of that...I don't know...need a pretty significant smoking gun for it not to be percieved as an over reach (pun definitely intended.).

 

[tsmith7559]

Contempt of Congress is a pretty big reach to take against an Attorney General of the United States.

For example, if an Attorney General were to have testified to Congress that that Attorney General was unaware of the whereabouts of a person, and if it were to later be found that, at that time, that person's body had been in the trunk of the Attorney General's car, then yes, in that instance, Contempt of Congress would be understandable.

Anything short of that...I don't know...need a pretty significant smoking gun for it not to be percieved as an over reach (pun definitely intended.).

they guy(Holder) has been submitting letters/statements to congress and then retracting them...I believe 5 to date... Somethings up with this!!!!

 

[Michchamp]

Detective Issa is on the job... keep digging, and next he'll find a tie in to ACORN, an immigrant smuggling ring, both of which combined to commit massive voter fraud to get Obama elected in 2008, after helping him forge his Hawaiian birth certificate of course...

That wasn't too hard. I could be a right wing radio talk show host.

 

[tsmith7559]

Detective Issa is on the job... keep digging, and next he'll find a tie in to ACORN, an immigrant smuggling ring, both of which combined to commit massive voter fraud to get Obama elected in 2008, after helping him forge his Hawaiian birth certificate of course...

That wasn't too hard. I could be a right wing radio talk show host.

its pretty simple...turn over the papers that were requested 18 months ago...we have a transparent president who knew nothing of the program, whats the big deal???

 

[cheeno]

I'm pretty sure if the Mexican government sold untraceable machine guns to gangs/organized crime in America, and those guns were later used to kill hundreds of citizens (including an customs officer) not only would it be a big deal, it may be considered an act of war.

 

[Michchamp]

I'm pretty sure if the Mexican government sold untraceable machine guns to gangs/organized crime in America, and those guns were later used to kill hundreds of citizens (including an customs officer) not only would it be a big deal, it may be considered an act of war.

that's cause 'MERICA is #1, and we're more important and stuff.

like I said, the ATF has been running crap like this since '06. not excusing any misconduct that may have been done, but trying to tar the current administration,NOW in an election year, is political grandstanding of the worst kind.

yes, I know the GOP/right wing talk radio has been grumbling about this, and other things for a while, birth certificates, socialism, Obamacare, etc. etc., but the timing of these hearings is so blatantly political I can hardly believe the right can acted so shocked... SHOCKED mind you, that the rest of the country isn't clamoring for Obama to be impeached.

 

[cheeno]

that's cause 'MERICA is #1, and we're more important and stuff.

like I said, the ATF has been running crap like this since '06. not excusing any misconduct that may have been done, but trying to tar the current administration,NOW in an election year, is political grandstanding of the worst kind.

yes, I know the GOP/right wing talk radio has been grumbling about this, and other things for a while, birth certificates, socialism, Obamacare, etc. etc., but the timing of these hearings is so blatantly political I can hardly believe the right can acted so shocked... SHOCKED mind you, that the rest of the country isn't clamoring for Obama to be impeached.

I tend to agree Michchamp, and hate to see the search for genuine accountability played for political points, which no doubt some of that is going on here. But the search itself is justified.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Anyway, sounds like Congress and the Justice Department are gonna come to a resolution short of Contempt of Congress.