Give Trump some credit on the North Korea meeting

[Gulo Blue]

He wanted a deal, badly. It would have been easier for him to sign a bad deal giving up too much and then tell his base it was the best deal ever. Coming home empty handed might have been the best he could have done for the US and not for himself personally.

 

[Michchamp]

This is the worst thread in the history of the politics board.

 

[Gulo Blue]

This is the worst thread in the history of the politics board.

Yeah, well you're worst thread in the history of the politics board.

 

[tigermud]

How dare you try to say anything nice about trump blue!. LOL

 

[TheVictors]

It’s just the same shit with Trump.

Create a fake crisis and pretend to solve it.

We really don’t need to be giving NK any sort of global platform but that is what Putin wants and it helps to disrupt our alliances and relations.

To ‘walk away’ as if he’s some sort of tough guy is just more posturing n

 

[Gulo Blue]

I vaguely remember something about Obama stressing the North Korea threat when he met with Trump for the hand-off and I've heard experts saying things were worse in 2017 than 2018. While there's been no agreement, testing has stopped.

 

[Michchamp]

I think the reality here is, Qaddafi gave up his nuclear program, and we said "hey great,
more people should be like him!" but then... look what actually happened to him.

Now Libya is such a "success" following our bringing them "democracy" both in the parlance of our government, that they have actual slave markets again. Thanks, Hillary.

Basically, any foreign leader that isn't completely stupid will never give up their nuclear weapons again, and you really can't blame them for that can you?

and that's all because our nation is a great shining beacon of democracy to the world.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I think the reality here is, Qaddafi gave up his nuclear program, and we said "hey great,
more people should be like him!" but then... look what actually happened to him.

We also promised Ukraine that if they wouldn't pursue nuclear weapons we'd have their back if anyone tried to take over any of their territory.



What's the message we're sending now? Don't be like Europe, they're the worst. Be like Putin, Kim, and Mohammed bin Salman and we'll take your word on things like influencing elections, Otto Warmbier, and Jamal Khashoggi.



But we just had a thread about how unimportant it is to worry about what others think of us.

 

[tinselwolverine]

But we just had a thread about how unimportant it is to worry about what others think of us.

That?s not what the thread was about at all.

The thread was about how the image of the US was down according to a Gallup poll with people of other nations vis-?-vis what the data showed it was years ago and compared to Russia and China.

And you opined that the United States should be taking more of a leadership position to combat global warming.

That?s what the thread was about.

You should know that-it was your thread.

Some people posted that they didn?t care, but that doesn?t mean that that was about the thread was about.

 

[Gulo Blue]

That?s not what the thread was about at all.

The thread was about how the image of the US was down according to a Gallup poll with people of other nations vis-?-vis what the data showed it was years ago and compared to Russia and China.

And you opined that the United States should be taking more of a leadership position to combat global warming.

That?s what the thread was about.

You should know that-it was your thread.

Some people posted that they didn?t care, but that doesn?t mean that that was about the thread was about.

A thread can be about more than one thing. I think the Michigan-Nebraska thread is about commercials now. But sure, the way I worded it could imply that that's all it was about.


I thought if I got called out over that post it would be related to the distinction between people and leaders.

 

[tinselwolverine]

A thread can be about more than one thing. I think the Michigan-Nebraska thread is about commercials now. But sure, the way I worded it could imply that that's all it was about.


I thought if I got called out over that post it would be related to the distinction between people and leaders.

I guess it?s a matter of semantics. I see a thread as being about the title and the OP. If a thread text other directions it?s still about what it was originally about. The Michigan Nebraska game thread is about the Michigan Nebraska game. That?s how I see it anyway.

That said, you did get called out about the distinction between people and leaders, in post #16.

You got called out on that by me.

 

[Michchamp]

In Ukraine we said "Join our Western markets, they'll be better for you than Russia... just look how great our standard of living is!"

Then we put frauds in power there that turned out to be even worse than the Russia-backed frauds are, and things got WORSE for the people, AND they lost their subsidized Russian gas and are now cutting down their own trees, and paying 3/4 of their salaries to heat their homes for the winter.

I was just there last April... they burned garbage at night to heat their farmhouse.

 

[Gulo Blue]

That said, you did get called out about the distinction between people and leaders, in post #16.

I thought I'd get called out again.

 

[Spartanmack]

We also promised Ukraine that if they wouldn't pursue nuclear weapons we'd have their back if anyone tried to take over any of their territory.



What's the message we're sending now? Don't be like Europe, they're the worst. Be like Putin, Kim, and Mohammed bin Salman and we'll take your word on things like influencing elections, Otto Warmbier, and Jamal Khashoggi.



But we just had a thread about how unimportant it is to worry about what others think of us.

you will. no, it's super important to worry about what others think of us so we should let every rogue dictator get nucs. Also, we should tell Europe to be more like Putin, who we've cracked down on more in the last 2 years than any administration since Reagan. Clearly we think everyone should be more like him or Kim, who we just walked away from the table (a table we shouldn't have been at, but still we walked away) and Mohammed bin Salman who for the first time got his country added to the list of state sponsors of terror. Well, Trump did say something stupid about Warmbier so that means we're telling the world to be more like all the guys we're actually tightening the screws on.

 

[Gulo Blue]

you will. no, it's super important to worry about what others think of us so we should let every rogue dictator get nucs. Also, we should tell Europe to be more like Putin, who we've cracked down on more in the last 2 years than any administration since Reagan. Clearly we think everyone should be more like him or Kim, who we just walked away from the table (a table we shouldn't have been at, but still we walked away) and Mohammed bin Salman who for the first time got his country added to the list of state sponsors of terror. Well, Trump did say something stupid about Warmbier so that means we're telling the world to be more like all the guys we're actually tightening the screws on.

Cracked down more on Putin? I don't know if it's better to criticize that point more by comparing recent to past sanctions or to point out that Trump pushed back on the sanctions congress voted for.

 

[Spartanmack]

Cracked down more on Putin? I don't know if it's better to criticize that point more by comparing recent to past sanctions or to point out that Trump pushed back on the sanctions congress voted for.

Well, I don't know which one is better but I do know neither one really gets it done. Trumps done more than any administration since Reagan. The initial pushback from Trump was because the sanctions put limits on the executive branch. Most of the criticism from CNN and other popular media stems from the administration missing deadlines to put the sanctions in place - anything to make it look like he was dragging his feet because he's really a Putin puppet.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/us/politics/trump-sanctions-russia-putin-oligarchs.html

“Nobody has been tougher on Russia, but getting along with Russia would be a good thing, not a bad thing,” Mr. Trump said this week. By Friday, according to a White House statement, he had dropped any qualification. “We cannot allow those seeking to sow confusion, discord and rancor to be successful,” Mr. Trump said.

Elizabeth Rosenberg, a former sanctions official in the Obama administration, described the penalties as “fairly muscular” and predicted that more sanctions are probably coming.

he also booted Russian diplomats and closed the Russian consulate over the attempted assassination of a ex-Russian spy in the UK and he has sold weapons to the Ukraine to help them fight the Russians after Obama refused to do it.

He's also put additional sanctions on North Korea and added Saudi Arabia to the list of state sponsors of terror - not sure if you saw that in my earlier post.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Well, I don't know which one is better but I do know neither one really gets it done. Trumps done more than any administration since Reagan. The initial pushback from Trump was because the sanctions put limits on the executive branch. Most of the criticism from CNN and other popular media stems from the administration missing deadlines to put the sanctions in place - anything to make it look like he was dragging his feet because he's really a Putin puppet.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/us/politics/trump-sanctions-russia-putin-oligarchs.html

he also booted Russian diplomats and closed the Russian consulate over the attempted assassination of a ex-Russian spy in the UK and he has sold weapons to the Ukraine to help them fight the Russians after Obama refused to do it.

He's also put additional sanctions on North Korea and added Saudi Arabia to the list of state sponsors of terror - not sure if you saw that in my earlier post.

It's not zero, but it's also not more than what came before:
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-sanctions-timeline/29477179.html

 

[Gulo Blue]

I don't see Saudi Arabia on the list of state sponsors of terrorism
https://www.state.gov/j/ct/list/c14151.htm

 

[Gulo Blue]

There are more sanctions on N.K. and I really don't know how big they are compared to what came before but the point I was making was directly about 3 cases where Trump told the press he believes these guys. In NK's case, it's good propaganda for Kim.

 

[Michchamp]

I don't see Saudi Arabia on the list of state sponsors of terrorism
https://www.state.gov/j/ct/list/c14151.htm

The White House has also been trying to transfer nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia.

that's a funny way to say "additional sanctions."

I guess now we've come to the point with some people that if they just "think" something, they actually believe it must be true.