Hey MichChamp

[tinselwolverine]

Is there, in your community, a kind of cross cultural (The) Ukrainian/Russian community of immigrants to the US that hangs out together...or is there a deep division between the (the) Ukrainian and Russian immigrant communities?

 

[Michchamp]

it's complicated. I'm only really familiar with the Ukrainians, and it depends on when they came here.

Among Ukrainians that came pre-Soviet Collapse, I'd say they're all pretty nationalistic Ukrainian/anti-Russian. They speak Ukrainian, not Russian, and keep to their own Ukrainian communities. And that's even more so if they're Catholic Ukrainians. So among earlier immigrants, there's really not too much mixing at that level; they either stay among Ukrainians or have assimilated with the rest of America.

among Ukrainians that came over more recently, especially younger Ukrainians/Russians, they seemed to be more likely to hang out together, go to the same nightclubs, etc. although that may be changing.

I mentioned on the other thread that my wife had been getting in some heated arguments on facebook with Russian friends that were talking shit about Ukraine. It's usually the dumber Russians as well; the more intelligent ones view the aggressive actions Putin has taken with disgust and certainly don't let it jeopardize their personal friendships (just like you'd find dumber Americans supporting the Iraq War, etc.).

I know she's gone so far as to de-friend/get de-friended by Russians, including some we knew quite well, so it's definitely affected things. To the extent that's representative of any larger trend, I'd say it's driven a wedge between those communities.

 

[Michchamp]

Chicago has always had a lot of Ukrainians. Going back to the 20's I think; there's even an old neighborhood named "Ukrainian Village." While it's changed a lot over the years, there's still a couple blocks of Ukrainian churches, restaurants, stores, etc. and you can walk down there and not see any English writing for a while. We have a savings account with the Ukrainian credit union there... the interest rates are solid.

Around there you can also see the flag of the Bandera, who were an extreme, right-wing nationalist Ukrainian group that initially fought with the Nazis in WWII, after they conquered Ukraine, before switching and fighting basically everyone... Germans, Russians, etc. Their flag is the red and black one in this photo:

In the context of Ukrainian/Russian relations, flying that is kinda like the Ukrainian equivalent of flying the Stars and Bars.

recently there's actually been some ethnic hijinks between the Ukrainians and Russians. A bunch of thugs threw fireworks into a Ukrainian church during mass, and spread nails in the parking lot. When my wife went down to the Ukrainian consulate here to vote in the election a couple months ago, I noticed a pretty heavy CPD presence.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.

I have a few friends with deep roots from the Ukraine. One had a grandfather who proudly shot Soviet soldiers in the Ukraine then would bury his rifle so they wouldn't find it. That was during the purge of the 1930's.

Conversations with him made me realize how many Ukranians hate Russia but hate Germany just as much. It is easy for us to forget the carnage the Nazi regime carried out on their way in and out of Russia in WWII. If I identified as Russian in anyway I would not want a world where Germany was running the show.