Nra

[TheVictors]

Just did high fives all around ...

"see, see ...no reason to ban assault weapons when knives are legal!"

http://news.yahoo.com/1-custody-pennsylvania-school-stabbings-121815117.html?vp=1

 

[zyxt9]

Well I'm not in the NRA nor do I even own a gun, but I have said all along that people will just use other weapons. I'm surprised a kid hasn't set off an IED yet to be honest. Blame guns all you want, there are other, and some even more deadly, things people can use than guns.

But go ahead and preach about how bad the guns are. I'm sure it will make all the families and victims of IEDs and other things feel better, and the day all guns are banned will be a victory for them. I can get my hands on many other weapons and make IEDs far easier than I can get guns and ammo, and I'm in NYC where the black market for guns is pretty big.

Point being, it isn't the guns, bit the psychos who use them...or whatever weapon is available, to do the mass killing. Solve THAT, and your problems with guns are solved.

 

[Michchamp]

Well I'm not in the NRA nor do I even own a gun, but I have said all along that people will just use other weapons. I'm surprised a kid hasn't set off an IED yet to be honest. Blame guns all you want, there are other, and some even more deadly, things people can use than guns.

but you would at least agree with the simple concept: it's easier to kill someone by pointing a gun at them and pulling the trigger than it is to stab them with a knife? And also that it's easier to kill multiple people with a gun, than it would be to run around and stab each of them with a knife?

and if you agree with those points, being a reasonable person you would agree that by limiting the prevalence of guns in society, we would reduce the ease with which someone mentally unstable or emotionally vulnerable might snap and murder family members, acquaintances, or random people, right?

and sure, anyone could build an IED, but bringing that up muddies the water here... it's a lot easier to get a gun and kill someone in an argument that gets out of hand, but the time it takes to build a bomb, and detonate it from a distance is not as likely to occur as a mass shooting or crime of passion.

But go ahead and preach about how bad the guns are. I'm sure it will make all the families and victims of IEDs and other things feel better, and the day all guns are banned will be a victory for them. I can get my hands on many other weapons and make IEDs far easier than I can get guns and ammo, and I'm in NYC where the black market for guns is pretty big.

exactly how many innocent people have been killed by IEDs compared to guns in this country? In recent memory, I can think of 3 in Boston... maybe one or two by the Unabomber.

If you want to count Oklahoma City... there's a lot more, but in that regard, we put in place regulations to track purchases of ammonium nitrate, so at least there's more of a chance to prevent massive domestic terrorist attacks like that from happening again.

and why does the argument for guns have to be absolute? No one is saying a law must eliminate all risk in order to justify its passing, merely reduce the risk, except in the context of firearms. Saying "you can't solve all violence... so therefore everybody should be able to buy guns without background checks, over the internet, etc." (which is what the NRA advocates) is illogical.

When you compare that to the thousands killed by guns in this country over the same period... you must be joking.

Point being, it isn't the guns, bit the psychos who use them...or whatever weapon is available, to do the mass killing. Solve THAT, and your problems with guns are solved.

Okay. Tell your buddies in the GOP to go back to the 1980's and not vote to unfund all the mental health clinics.

"We need to cut the size of government!!!"

"Government spending is out of control!!!!111 WAAAAAAH!!!"

own it.

 

[Gulo Blue]

exactly how many innocent people have been killed by IEDs compared to guns in this country?

Not at all recent, but the worst US school mass-murder was IEDs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Bath, Michigan.

Either way, pointing to knives is only a half step worse than pointing to assault rifles. The conversation should be about handguns and mental health programs. The rest is mostly politics.

 

[spockmaster]

Not at all recent, but the worst US school mass-murder was IEDs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Bath, Michigan.

Either way, pointing to knives is only a half step worse than pointing to assault rifles. The conversation should be about handguns and mental health programs. The rest is mostly politics.

Damn straight. Not that I think people should be walking around with assault rifles either, but its comparatively a much smaller percentage of the problem than handguns are, but its a political talking point so it gets most of the attention.


And yeah, the deterioration of mental health care in this country is disturbing.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Damn straight. Not that I think people should be walking around with assault rifles either, but its comparatively a much smaller percentage of the problem than handguns are, but its a political talking point so it gets most of the attention.


And yeah, the deterioration of mental health care in this country is disturbing.

There's a stat getting some press right now claiming the number of people in prison with mental health issues is 10 times the number getting help in facilities or something like that. I still need to read that story to see what exactly the claim is.

 

[spockmaster]

There's a stat getting some press right now claiming the number of people in prison with mental health issues is 10 times the number getting help in facilities or something like that. I still need to read that story to see what exactly the claim is.

I wouldn't doubt it. It used to be that people with mental illnesses were locked up in "hospitals" with primitive treatments that were often abusive (think places like Letchworth Village or Pennhurst, or One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest), and forgotten by society. Now many of them are locked up in PRISON instead or simply turned out on the streets and forgotten until something happens to make headlines. Its simply disgusting.

 

[Michchamp]

I wouldn't doubt it. It used to be that people with mental illnesses were locked up in "hospitals" with primitive treatments that were often abusive (think places like Letchworth Village or Pennhurst, or One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest), and forgotten by society. Now many of them are locked up in PRISON instead or simply turned out on the streets and forgotten until something happens to make headlines. Its simply disgusting.

Coworker of mine has a nutty aunt that is mostly harmless, but on occasion has snapped and done things like slap the bagger at the grocery store, and get arrested. he was showing me some of her facebook posts the other day.

there's no committed mental health hospital option for her anymore; those have all been closed. the only options for her are prison or voluntary treatment. and the latter isn't really an option because of the catch-22 whereby a truly insane person won't attend therapy sessions and take their medication regularly.

so her family is left hoping she stays out of trouble for the most part. if not, she will likely get sent to prison repeatedly.

she can, of course, buy a handgun. if not legally (the NRA recently won a few battles here in Illinois, which had been the last state prohibiting CC), then by simply going to a gun show somewhere in Illinois or a neighboring state with even more lax regulations like Indiana or Iowa. And that's great for everyone... because... she could presumably do as much harm with a knife, or IED, right zyxt???

And the Second Amendment is absolute and permits completely unregulated gun sales... since they are "arms"... but it does not conflict with the complete prohibitions on explosives, heavy artillery, or tanks... even though a well-regulated militia would need those to oppose tyranny, and... just ignore the logical disconnect there).

 

[Monster]

20 wounded. ZERO dead. All 7 critically injured are expected to survive. Why? Because it wasn't an automatic weapon where the attacker could hit each person 10+ times without breaking a sweat.

Any skilled individual would know how to kill with just about any weapon. However, guns kill at a much higher rate than a knife in situations like this. Most school shootings are carried out by amateur children. If the Columbine or Virginia Tech shooters only had knives, there might not have been so much death.

As tragic as this incident was, everyone is alive. Knives have value outside of killing. Guns have no value outside of killing. The differences should be obvious, but I'm sure the NRA is already saying, "See! Need sum guns in err skoos!"

 

[Gulo Blue]

We're 3rd in the world behind Uruguay and Montenegro in firearms related suicides (2 nations that if combined, would have roughly the population of LA). We're around 15th in homicides, which is also horrible, but we're only 0.74 suicides per 100,000 people shy of leading the entire planet. It's shocking. It's the 11th most likely way to die in the US.

 

[TheVictors]

20 wounded. ZERO dead. All 7 critically injured are expected to survive. Why? Because it wasn't an automatic weapon where the attacker could hit each person 10+ times without breaking a sweat.

Any skilled individual would know how to kill with just about any weapon. However, guns kill at a much higher rate than a knife in situations like this. Most school shootings are carried out by amateur children. If the Columbine or Virginia Tech shooters only had knives, there might not have been so much death.

As tragic as this incident was, everyone is alive. Knives have value outside of killing. Guns have no value outside of killing. The differences should be obvious, but I'm sure the NRA is already saying, "See! Need sum guns in err skoos!"

Exactly. And my sarcastic post about the NRA and knives was the REAL and actual response to Sandy Hook. Remember?? Some guy in China stabbed a few people while in CT, some deranged kid used his Mom's gun to mow down twenty innocent Kindergarten children.

 

[Gulo Blue]

If well regulated militias were more concerned with gathering as much data on the government as it gathers on everyone else they would be more in line with following the intent of that amendment.

 

[byco42]

A knife is a deadly instrument in the hands of one who knows how to use it, especially at close range

 

[Monster]

Exactly. And my sarcastic post about the NRA and knives was the REAL and actual response to Sandy Hook. Remember?? Some guy in China stabbed a few people while in CT, some deranged kid used his Mom's gun to mow down twenty innocent Kindergarten children.

I remember that. I still have no idea why these people are so nuts about their guns. During the bush admin, the NRA was pushing universal background checks. Now..."You'll take my guns over my dead body! The government is coming for them! How will I protect my family?"

You have a right to own guns. The government must regulate the use, however. It's just like free speech. Yes, you have a right to your beliefs and whatever you want to say. But, you can't threaten people with that speech, you can't slander. Well, you can, but there are consequences in doings so.

 

[Michchamp]

A knife is a deadly instrument in the hands of one who knows how to use it, especially at close range

sounds like they were using something a bigger than a knife. also, there were 10 of them attacking in a coordinated terror campaign, at a crowded railway station.

and of course, this has nothing on Sandy Hook, VaTech, Aurora CO, Scottsdale, AZ, where a single shooter mowed down as many people.

 

[Monster]

A knife is a deadly instrument in the hands of one who knows how to use it, especially at close range

That's so true. But if you make that argument, I can say that a fork is also a deadly instrument. Notice that 130 people were injured? If they all had automatic weapons, how many of those 130 would have survived? What about all the others who escaped harm? You think they would have been shot instead of getting away?

Now what would have happened if some of the innocent people had weapons? Sure, they might have killed some of the bad guys and maybe even driven them off. Would they have been able to avoid hitting other innocents in the crossfire? Would the police know who were the good guys when they showed up?

Anything can be a weapon. But when you have high capacity, high powered weapons in the hands of untrained and unstable people, you're asking for disaster. They have to be regulated.

 

[Michchamp]

Not at all recent, but the worst US school mass-murder was IEDs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Bath, Michigan.

Either way, pointing to knives is only a half step worse than pointing to assault rifles. The conversation should be about handguns and mental health programs. The rest is mostly politics.

if you want to go back to 1923 or whenever that was... I think the number of gun-related deaths vs. IED-related deaths is even less favorable to the comparison.

NRA/gun enthusiasts easily set the record for the most red-herrings & straw men used in single argument, whenever they open their mouths.

SO STUPID.

 

[byco42]

That's so true. But if you make that argument, I can say that a fork is also a deadly instrument. Notice that 130 people were injured? If they all had automatic weapons, how many of those 130 would have survived? What about all the others who escaped harm? You think they would have been shot instead of getting away?

People get injured in shootings, too. Bullets miss people. I'd rather face a man with a gun than a knife at close quarters. To the person who is killed, why does the weapon of choice matter, especially if it is unregulated and in the hands of whackos like these Muslim extremists?

Now what would have happened if some of the innocent people had weapons? Sure, they might have killed some of the bad guys and maybe even driven them off. Would they have been able to avoid hitting other innocents in the crossfire? Would the police know who were the good guys when they showed up?

Anything can be a weapon. But when you have high capacity, high powered weapons in the hands of untrained and unstable people, you're asking for disaster. They have to be regulated.

I don't see the relevance of bringing up guns in a knife fight.

 

[Gulo Blue]

What about my right to mount a handgun to an RC helicopter?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc5yyg_rc-helicopter-with-45-caliber-hand_sport

seems like an ok time for a 3d printed gun update.

Metals guns can be printed. All but the springs. Looks like a regular gun. But an individual could not afford the printer. http://solidconcepts.wistia.com/medias/dsvmyg6d9j

3D printed shotgun slugs work, but they're "crappy little rounds". http://www.wired.com/2013/05/3d-printed-bullets/

 

[Sbee]

People get injured in shootings, too. Bullets miss people. I'd rather face a man with a gun than a knife at close quarters. To the person who is killed, why does the weapon of choice matter, especially if it is unregulated and in the hands of whackos like these Muslim extremists?



I don't see the relevance of bringing up guns in a knife fight.

I'd rather face someone with a surface to air missle at close range vs someone with a knife.