Robert Mueller Russia inquiry: first charges have been filed

[sggatecl]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-charges/first-charges-filed-in-u-s-special-counsels-russia-investigation-source-idUSKBN1CX00V

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A federal grand jury on Friday approved the first charges in the investigation into alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, a source briefed on the matter told Reuters.

The indictment was sealed under orders from a federal judge so it was not clear what the charges were or who the target was, the source said, adding that it could be unsealed as early as Monday.

The filing of charges by the grand jury in Washington was first reported on Friday by CNN, which said the target could be taken into custody as soon as Monday.

 

[turok]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...els-russia-investigation-source-idUSKBN1CX00V

Hoping that it includes one or more of Bob and Bekah Mercer/Cambridge Analytica/SCL Group LLC employees, but that is quite probably waay too much to expect @ this point, plus extraditions would be required.

 

[sggatecl]

Hoping that it includes one or more of Bob and Bekah Mercer/Cambridge Analytica/SCL Group LLC employees, but that is quite probably waay too much to expect @ this point, plus extraditions would be required.

I imagine it will be no name people we've never heard of. Bigger fish, if any, won't come until later.

 

[turok]

I imagine it will be no name people we've never heard of. Bigger fish, if any, won't come until later.

Scotland Yard and MI 6 apparently are permitting the Cossack mob to commit assassinations on British soil with impunity, partly b/c of all of the dirty investment rubles flowing (and being laundered) into the country, which is a pathetically sad state of affairs if so. Duuno how much, if any cooperation that could be received, if Mueller's investigation extends into England.

 

[Spartanmack]

Manafort & Rick Gates charged with conspiracy against US. don't have time to look it up - does anyone know if conspiracy is the same as treason or is there a different legal definition? if so, how different?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Manafort & Rick Gates charged with conspiracy against US. don't have time to look it up - does anyone know if conspiracy is the same as treason or is there a different legal definition? if so, how different?

I don't think it's the same. Anonymous posters elsewhere claim it's just people working together to commit tax fraud.

edit: here's an article that explains that charge:
http://www.businessinsider.com/conspiracy-against-the-united-states-paul-manafort-2017-10

 

[Gulo Blue]

 

[Michchamp]

I hope that Roger Stone creep goes down as well.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I hope that Roger Stone creep goes down as well.

I saw the Netflix interview and I agree. The people that don't give a crap about Americans or their well being and think that this is all a game, are winning the game.

 

[biggunsbob]

Nothing ever sticks to Trump and neither will this . His base and the Gop like living in a alternate universe where facts do not matter and they don't give two shit's about ordinary middle class folks. Gerrymandering and power. Unless the Democrats start doing the same thing as republicans they will never win elections again. Can you imagine if any democrat had done what Trump has done ? Campaign Finance laws need to be changed and fast so a true democracy can emerge .

 

[turok]

I don't think it's the same. Anonymous posters elsewhere claim it's just people working together to commit tax fraud.

edit: here's an article that explains that charge:
http://www.businessinsider.com/conspiracy-against-the-united-states-paul-manafort-2017-10

"If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

Yet MI residents can receive prison sentences of up to 7 years for del/mfg/conspiracy of <50 grams of controlled substances, and have all of their assets seized. 5 years max and/or a "fine" for tax fraud involving hundreds of thousands or millions seems very light/tame in comparison.

 

[Gulo Blue]

John Oliver keeps calling the Russian collusion "Stupid Watergate", but I think he's forgetting that there are smart people in Russia. It's possible that Trump was willing and eager to make stupid mistakes, but the Russians knew when to back off and not cross legal lines. If they opened a door to Trump getting impeached, they probably tried to do it in a way where it wouldn't happen until they revealed (through back channels) some key piece of evidence..

 

[sggatecl]

 

[Gulo Blue]

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/925029460142944258?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Daniel Dale‏Verified account @ddale8

Papadopoulos is described as "proactive cooperator." Former prosecutor tells me that sometimes means "wore a wire."

 

[turok]

Maybe the US isn't "technically" @ war with Russia and China, but it sure appears that we are technologically. Perhaps the official definition of committing treason, needs to be updated to reflect that fact here in the 21st century.

 

[Michchamp]

treason is somewhat unique among criminal behavior (if you want to call it that) because it's spefically defined in the Constitution:

SECTION 3. Clause 1. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open court.​

reason being (link): ...a product of the awareness of the Framers of the ?numerous and dangerous excrescences? which had disfigured the English law of treason and was therefore intended to put it beyond the power of Congress to ?extend the crime and punishment of treason.?1331 The debate in the Convention, remarks in the ratifying conventions, and contemporaneous public comment make clear that a restrictive concept of the crime was imposed and that ordinary partisan divisions within political society were not to be escalated by the stronger into capital charges of treason...

 

[Michchamp]

I haven't read the indictment yet, but all along it seems like the US media is willing to stretch just who is and is not an agent of the Russian government.

just about any given Russian slob could be "tied to Putin" in the eyes of the media.

I think we would be surprised by Manafort being described as an "American agent" when he was lobbying around the world. it's "different when we do it" because we're America!

Manafort's and Stone's lobbying firm has been sleazy as shit for decades, and helped all manner of foreign scumbags get elected in their own countries; I have a hard time believing this is the first time they've stepped afoul of the law. Maybe this is payback from the DC-establishment for helping to foist Trump on us? They finally got in trouble, only because this time, they shat where they eat?

 

[Michchamp]

also, FWIW on treason, I take the definition in the Constitution to mean that a war has to actually be declared in order for it to be at play.

we haven't officially been at war with anyone since 1945.

 

[turok]

also, FWIW on treason, I take the definition in the Constitution to mean that a war has to actually be declared in order for it to be at play.

we haven't officially been at war with anyone since 1945.

We didn't have electricity, steam/gas/nuclear-powered engines, refrigeration, or semi-autos with bullets when the Constitution was written either, but I think that the ether is now absolutely vital to our communications, commerce, transportation, security, and ultimately our survival as a united nation. We are under attack virtually 24/7/365. Time to get with the program, and have Congress acknowledge and declare that we are at eWar with extremely dangerous adversaries who are using the technology that our military invented (ARPANET) against US.

 

[Gulo Blue]

The new spin on Papadopoulos.

"He was the coffee boy," Caputo said. "You might have called him a foreign policy analyst, but if he was going to wear a wire, all we would have known now is whether he prefers a caramel macchiato over a regular American coffee in conversations with his barista."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/31/politics/caputo-papadopoulos-coffee-boy-cnntv/index.html