Russian and former Soviets buy $109 M of Trump properties

[Gulo Blue]

http://amp.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article210477439.html

Buyers connected to Russia or former Soviet republics made 86 all-cash sales ? totaling nearly $109 million ? at 10 Trump-branded properties in South Florida and New York City, according to a new analysis shared with McClatchy. Many of them made purchases using shell companies designed to obscure their identities.

?The size and scope of these cash purchases are deeply troubling as they can often signal money laundering activity," said Rep. Adam Schiff of California, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee and a former federal prosecutor. "There have long been credible allegations of money laundering by the Trump Organization which, if true, would pose a real threat to the United States in the event that Russia were able to leverage evidence of illicit financial transactions against the president."

Money laundering accusations aside, I don't want a sitting President to have this kind of conflict of interest going on. Don't "whaddabout" it. It's bad, even if other bad things happened in the past. This is a President that has pushed back on Congress with respect to Russian sanctions.

 

[Gulo Blue]

...just waiting to see if Michigan's endowment is involved.

 

[Michchamp]

Well, Hillary did bad stuff too. She's not president or in charge of anything, but two wrongs make a right.

 

[Spartanmack]

this is not unique to Trump properties. You can look at the list of buyers of any luxury apartments in NYC, particularly new construction over the past 10 years and see the same thing. Russian oligarchs and Chinese government officials have been buying apartments hand over fist in Manhattan for several years now. They pay full ask, often times above ask for multi-million dollar properties site unseen and often have never been to them. I forget the stat but a large % of 157 W 57th street, where two penthouses each sold for $90mm+ and apartments started over $5mm, was bought buy Russian and Chinese nationals and many of the luxury apartments sit empty most or all of the year.

 

[Gulo Blue]

this is not unique to Trump properties. You can look at the list of buyers of any luxury apartments in NYC, particularly new construction over the past 10 years and see the same thing. Russian oligarchs and Chinese government officials have been buying apartments hand over fist in Manhattan for several years now. They pay full ask, often times above ask for multi-million dollar properties site unseen and often have never been to them. I forget the stat but a large % of 157 W 57th street, where two penthouses each sold for $90mm+ and apartments started over $5mm, was bought buy Russian and Chinese nationals and many of the luxury apartments sit empty most or all of the year.

Not unique? The unique part is Trump can push back on Congress with respect to Russian sanctions and impact trade with China.

 

[Spartanmack]

http://amp.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article210477439.html
Money laundering accusations aside, I don't want a sitting President to have this kind of conflict of interest going on. Don't "whaddabout" it. It's bad, even if other bad things happened in the past. This is a President that has pushed back on Congress with respect to Russian sanctions.

If Trump, as has been pointed out many times here is merely licensing his brand and doesn't actually own these properties, presumably his company has little or no involvement in the sales of the units and vetting who buys them. If there is a lot of money laundering going on (which I suspect there is - see previous post), the most we can say is Trump should be more selective in who he licenses his name to, but I don't think a licensee's shady sales are a major conflict of interest for Trump.

It seems as though Adam Schiff may be trying a little too hard to make it look like there's something to the Trump/Russia allegations.

 

[Spartanmack]

Not unique? The unique part is Trump can push back on Congress with respect to Russian sanctions and impact trade with China.

The real problem is the money laundering and it's not at all unique to Trump properties. Suddenly Adam Schiff cares who is buying real estate in the US but only if they're buying property from a building that licenses Trump's name? The fact that he doesn't give a shit about the same slimey people hoovering up overvalued properties that don't have Trump's name says a lot.

 

[Gulo Blue]

The real problem is the money laundering and it's not at all unique to Trump properties. Suddenly Adam Schiff cares who is buying real estate in the US but only if they're buying property from a building that licenses Trump's name? The fact that he doesn't give a shit about the same slimey people hoovering up overvalued properties that don't have Trump's name says a lot.

"The real problem is the money laundering" Says who? I wouldn't. Not saying either is good (or proven), but influencing Russian sanctions is worse than money laundering.

 

[Gulo Blue]

If Trump, as has been pointed out many times here is merely licensing his brand and doesn't actually own these properties, presumably his company has little or no involvement in the sales of the units and vetting who buys them. If there is a lot of money laundering going on (which I suspect there is - see previous post), the most we can say is Trump should be more selective in who he licenses his name to, but I don't think a licensee's shady sales are a major conflict of interest for Trump.

It seems as though Adam Schiff may be trying a little too hard to make it look like there's something to the Trump/Russia allegations.

You are so generous with your assumptions. I can't believe you claim to not like Trump.

 

[Spartanmack]

You are so generous with your assumptions. I can't believe you claim to not like Trump.

is it your contention that 86 cash purchases of units by people connected to Russia or former Soviet Republics (not necessarily the governments, but the countries) between 2007 and 2010 (7-10 years before he became POTUS) in 10 different Trump branded properties (that he doesn't actually own or control) somehow puts Trump in the bag for the Russians? One of those properties referenced in the article has 813 units, so if you ignore all the other properties, that's 10%. If the other properties average 200 units, we're talking about 86 out of 2,613 units or roughly 3.3% of those purchases in buildings Trump doesn't own, from 7-10 years before he ran for president are now swaying his actions as POTUS?

am I being generous with my assumptions or are you perhaps taking some big leaps?


edit: toward the end of the article it indicates they researched properties totaling 2,769 units so these transactions in question represent 3.1% of purchases.

 

[tomdalton22]

is it your contention that 86 cash purchases of units by people connected to Russia or former Soviet Republics (not necessarily the governments, but the countries) between 2007 and 2010 (7-10 years before he became POTUS) in 10 different Trump branded properties (that he doesn't actually own or control) somehow puts Trump in the bag for the Russians? One of those properties referenced in the article has 813 units, so if you ignore all the other properties, that's 10%. If the other properties average 200 units, we're talking about 86 out of 2,613 units or roughly 3.3% of those purchases in buildings Trump doesn't own, from 7-10 years before he ran for president are now swaying his actions as POTUS?

am I being generous with my assumptions or are you perhaps taking some big leaps?

They also emphasize that they were cash deals. Most real estate transactions in the US by foreign buyers are cash deals (about 60%)

 

[Gulo Blue]

is it your contention that 86 cash purchases of units by people connected to Russia or former Soviet Republics (not necessarily the governments, but the countries) between 2007 and 2010 (7-10 years before he became POTUS) in 10 different Trump branded properties (that he doesn't actually own or control) somehow puts Trump in the bag for the Russians? One of those properties referenced in the article has 813 units, so if you ignore all the other properties, that's 10%. If the other properties average 200 units, we're talking about 86 out of 2,613 units or roughly 3.3% of those purchases in buildings Trump doesn't own, from 7-10 years before he ran for president are now swaying his actions as POTUS?

am I being generous with my assumptions or are you perhaps taking some big leaps?

You presume his company has little or no involvement in the sales and that they don't vet (which includes an assumption that they don't already know). Of course I can't prove what's in your head, but I believe that if we were looking at the same situation with the Clinton's, you would not be telling us that the shady licensee doesn't create a conflict of interest. I'm not making leaps at all. I thought there was conflict when I just thought Trump wanted to do business with Russians. Now, we have evidence that he's has business with Russians for years, and you call that a leap. I just don't get why you can't own your pro-Trump position.

 

[Spartanmack]

You presume his company has little or no involvement in the sales and that they don't vet (which includes an assumption that they don't already know). Of course I can't prove what's in your head, but I believe that if we were looking at the same situation with the Clinton's, you would not be telling us that the shady licensee doesn't create a conflict of interest. I'm not making leaps at all. I thought there was conflict when I just thought Trump wanted to do business with Russians. Now, we have evidence that he's has business with Russians for years, and you call that a leap. I just don't get why you can't own your pro-Trump position.

talk about generous assumptions. I don't like Trump, I think he's a slimey guy both in his business dealings and his personal life. The difference here is I don't think Russians purchasing 3% of certain properties bearing his name 10 years ago is much of a smoking gun. And not all of those deals are necessarily shady - one of the Russians identified as buying one of the properties was former Red Wings and Devils defenseman Slava Fetisov. The fact that I don't accept these transactions, which aren't remotely exclusive to Trump branded properties (it happens all the time in major cities from NY to LA), are proof of Trump's collusion with or subjugation to the Russians doesn't mean I like Trump.

 

[Gulo Blue]

talk about generous assumptions. I don't like Trump, I think he's a slimey guy both in his business dealings and his personal life. The difference here is I don't think Russians purchasing 3% of certain properties bearing his name 10 years ago is much of a smoking gun. And not all of those deals are necessarily shady - one of the Russians identified as buying one of the properties was former Red Wings and Devils defenseman Slava Fetisov. The fact that I don't accept these transactions, which aren't remotely exclusive to Trump branded properties (it happens all the time in major cities from NY to LA), are proof of Trump's collusion with or subjugation to the Russians doesn't mean I like Trump.

You are generous in that you act like I'm talking about proof of collusion or money laundering (despite me very clearly not focusing on those things, see posts #1 and #8, I'm clear as crystal) so you can be dismissive of anything less than that.


It's a branding company with a brand popular with Russians with 6 Trump buildings in a neighborhood nicknamed "Little Russia". Not just any Russians, the rich ones that would care about the sanctions he defies Congress on. That's a conflict of interest, and the degree to which you try to reshape the argument to things I'm not saying, is strongly indicative of having a bias in favor of this guy in my opinion. And you're consistent on that front. You're a Trump supporter. Not saying he's your first pick, but when he's criticized, you consistently defend him or bend narratives to deflect from the criticism.

 

[Spartanmack]

You are generous in that you act like I'm talking about proof of collusion or money laundering (despite me very clearly not focusing on those things, see posts #1 and #8, I'm clear as crystal) so you can be dismissive of anything less than that.


It's a branding company with a brand popular with Russians with 6 Trump buildings in a neighborhood nicknamed "Little Russia". Not just any Russians, the rich ones that would care about the sanctions he defies Congress on. That's a conflict of interest, and the degree to which you try to reshape the argument to things I'm not saying, is strongly indicative of having a bias in favor of this guy in my opinion. And you're consistent on that front. You're a Trump supporter. Not saying he's your first pick, but when he's criticized, you consistently defend him or bend narratives to deflect from the criticism.

I don't assume that at all or reshaping the argument. I made the point that the money laundering implications for the owners are, in my opinion a bigger deal than the possibility that a small portion of property sales from 10 years ago in properties trump doesn't own compromises him in some way. I specifically said I don't buy it as evidence of collusion (as the article suggested) or his subjugation (i.e. compromising him, as you indicate) to the Russians.

I'm not a Trump supporter and I don't defend everything he does, I just take exception to cases like this for a couple of reasons. First, because I think a lot of the criticism is crying wolf and I call bull shit when I see it, even if it's about someone I don't particularly like or support. Second, because I think Trump derangement syndrome actually has the opposite effect that is intended when people try to find something wrong with literally everything he does.

If you think that makes me a Trump supporter, I don't really care. I don't need to see smoke everywhere or believe in every made up thing about Trump to dislike him.

 

[Polish-Hammer]

talk about generous assumptions. I don't like Trump, I think he's a slimey guy both in his business dealings and his personal life. The difference here is I don't think Russians purchasing 3% of certain properties bearing his name 10 years ago is much of a smoking gun. And not all of those deals are necessarily shady - one of the Russians identified as buying one of the properties was former Red Wings and Devils defenseman Slava Fetisov. The fact that I don't accept these transactions, which aren't remotely exclusive to Trump branded properties (it happens all the time in major cities from NY to LA), are proof of Trump's collusion with or subjugation to the Russians doesn't mean I like Trump.

Fetisov was a Minister during Putin's first term.


Still a member of the Russian government.



But yes, I see no ties to Russian oligarchy there.

 

[Michchamp]

read the article.

I actually agree with spartanhack here.

Trump is a scumbag, sleazeball, liar, fraud, racist, and horrible human being. But OTHER scumbags buying units in his condos (and it's not clear if Trump is even the seller of the units in question) is not on him.

his condos have always attracted criminals, frauds, wannabes, and other lowlifes BTW. going back to when he built Trump Tower in the 80's. No one with a modicum of personal self respect, decency, or good taste wanted to live there, and that was even before he was revealed to be the fraud he is.

law enforcement should be more focused on money-laundering and white collar crime than they are, instead of driving around and busting people for getting high. but that would mean they had to go after people who could actually afford lawyers, so...

 

[Gulo Blue]

I don't assume that at all or reshaping the argument. I made the point that the money laundering implications for the owners are, in my opinion a bigger deal than the possibility that a small portion of property sales from 10 years ago in properties trump doesn't own compromises him in some way. I specifically said I don't buy it as evidence of collusion (as the article suggested) or his subjugation (i.e. compromising him, as you indicate) to the Russians.

I'm not a Trump supporter and I don't defend everything he does, I just take exception to cases like this for a couple of reasons. First, because I think a lot of the criticism is crying wolf and I call bull shit when I see it, even if it's about someone I don't particularly like or support. Second, because I think Trump derangement syndrome actually has the opposite effect that is intended when people try to find something wrong with literally everything he does.

If you think that makes me a Trump supporter, I don't really care. I don't need to see smoke everywhere or believe in every made up thing about Trump to dislike him.

Trump derangement syndrome? I think I expressed this exact idea here in different words. Probably more than once. I was talking about stuff like picking on his spelling though. Not conflict of interest where the President decided to delay Russian sanctions that had been expected.



You're combining your complaint against what I'm saying with complaints against things I'm not saying. You combine that with the weird thing you're doing where you assert the money laundering is the real big thing, but not unique to Trump. I think an asteroid ending all life on Earth is the real big issue here, but there's no evidence were at any higher or lower risk of that than normal.

 

[Gulo Blue]

read the article.

I actually agree with spartanhack here.

our law enforcement should be more focused on money-launder

Sure. If it exists.


Someone should definitely look into it. I'm just not hanging my hat on this article to start talking about money laundering as news.


What's news to me is that Trump's had business with Russians. Not just business aspirations.

 

[Michchamp]

I wrote more.